[Mr. Vega]

Japan still needs to work out its role in WW2.

In a sense, they have, and that's the problem. To be born in Asia, prior to WW2, was to be born chattel. It was sometimes implicit, and sometimes literal, but for every Asian country save Japan it was universally true. To be Asian was to be considered inferior. But Japan was in a position to do something about that. World War 2 in the Pacific, in a very real way, happened because Japan was seizing the opportunity to strike at those who had oppressed the region for generations.

Japan cast itself as liberator from white imperialism. It is the only war goal that Japan can be said to have actually achieved. By their victories in World War 2 they irrevocably destroyed the legitimacy of the colonial powers in Asia and freed an entire continent from western imperialism. To the Japanese mindset, which often values the integrity of the act more than the outcome of it, that cloak of purpose is what truly matters. This is at the heart of their inability examine their own actions during WW2 with anything like the seriousness their victims typically feel is necessary.

That's the post of the year, no question. How did you come to that conclusion though?

[Kolgena]

I agree, that's the first time I've heard that (pretty interesting) argument made, and it sounds reasonable. However, it seems more like propaganda working too well, to the point of affecting the country's modern day leaders.

A couple points:

You can't say that you're freeing people from imperialism if you're just going to occupy them immediately after ousting the previous occupiers. It also doesn't help if you treat the occupied people vastly worst than before. However, the national mentality regarding all this makes perfect sense if you consider what would have been reported on back home during WWII. Japan wins many battles all over Asia, ousting Allied and White influence. Japan is helping develop the region by building a significant amount of infrastructure including railways, power plants, housing, etc. (There's a joke in China that says that any building still standing since 50 years ago is guaranteed to be of Japanese construction; their building standards were of very high quality, especially compared to crappy Chinese standards). Japan is spreading culture and enlightenment to an inferior people, who are benefiting from our intervention. What nobody hears about are the war crimes, mass civilian murder during occupation (people promised wages and housing to work on various projects, later killed without pay to save on expenses), human experimentation (unit 731), forced prostitution (comfort women), torture, slavery, etc.

Now consider that Japan's censorship was (is?) pretty effective regarding WWII history if you look at their curriculum. People growing up there likely didn't know much about many of the war crimes that occurred, and to some extent might think that the rest of Asia is slandering them. At least, they don't believe enough of it to remove shrines celebrating war criminals, or abstain from saying stuff that pisses off the rest of Asia.

[MP-Ryan]

*sigh*

The problem with the way World War 2 ended is that many people - not all of them Japanese - feel that Japan was a victim based on the fact that it was subjected to atomic bombs not once, but twice.

What said people - and many Japanese - forget is that Japan was in many ways a savage aggressor that treated invaded peoples, enemy combatants, and POWs with unconscionable savagery which is well-documented in the historical record, though not often spoken of or (as I understand it) taught in Japanese schools.  These statements are designed to pander to that lack of education.  While the rest of the world, and most notably Asia, readily condemns Japan for its actions and would like to move on, Japan has historically refused to recognize its actions and continues to maintain a victim mentality based on how WW2 concluded, rather than how it was actually conducted.

Whereas Germany in many ways embraced, apologized for, and continues to be ashamed of the Nazi plague, Japan has a long way to go.

[NGTM-1R]

That's the post of the year, no question. How did you come to that conclusion though?

World War 2 in the Pacific is a hobby of mine. We live in an period where it's become feasible to have people from both sides of the Pacific with an active interest in the subject discuss it. It's also true that at this point in the time the National Archives or other sources of documents available to Western historians are nearly played out while at the same time a lot of Japanese sources, from veteran interviews to documentation that remained in Japan, have yet to be tapped.

Historians are aware of this. And the Internet makes it possible to reach these sources and translate them, with the help of sympathetic Japanese. I've just lurked around the edges of the community involved in this, but the Japanese participants tend to echo certain refrains when something like this comes up in conversation. Most of them don't appear to buy into it, but they're guys on a messageboard devoted to the Imperial Japanese Navy and have more interest in and education on the subject than the average Japanese.

[Al-Rik]

Who started the war ?

That's not only a question in Japan.
Some people believe that Thatcher started the Falkland War and that Bush senior started the First Gulf War in 1990.
Because invading a foreign territory isn't a casus belli unless you push new born babies out of incubators. 

So depending on your political agenda it's sensible to be flexible with such questions.
Abe want to build up the Japanese military, and with North Korea an China as neighbours he has rational reasons for it.
Redefining the Japanese Occupation of Korea and China seems to be necessary for Abe to overcome internal Japanese resistance against a stronger military, even if this provokes other Asian Nations.
A greater politician would try to reach that objective without such manoeuvres, but Abe seem to lack the diplomatic skills for it.

[Lorric]

I like this channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheJapanChannelDcom

It's an Australian (I think) guy living in Japan, who uploads an immense amount of videos on Japan.

One thing I've seen him say is the Japanese attitude to problems are to pretend they don't exist. It seems to be a cultural thing. Problems are just edited out of conversation. Japanese don't talk about their problems. Probably has something to do with the high suicide rate. They'll talk about nice stuff and sweep everything else under the carpet. Unfortunately I can't give any relevant examples, I can't remember the videos, it would be needle in a haystack stuff, he has over a thousand videos.

[Kolgena]

Redefining the Japanese Occupation of Korea and China seems to be necessary for Abe to overcome internal Japanese resistance against a stronger military, even if this provokes other Asian Nations.

I thought some international agreement stipulates that losers of WWII cannot have military strength over a certain amount? IIRC that's why JP lacks an "army" and instead has a "self-defense force"?

[SpardaSon21]

That's actually part of their Constitution if I recall correctly.  How external that is can be debated with regards to MacArthur, but IIRC there's actually a fair bit of current resistance to amending that out.

[Mebber]

The problem with the way World War 2 ended is that many people - not all of them Japanese - feel that Japan was a victim based on the fact that it was subjected to atomic bombs not once, but twice.

True. War crimes, atrocites and the matter of guilt are a soft spot not only for Japan. Atrocities by the enemy are often used to relativise own crimes, and the same mechanic seems to produce biased views even in discussions decades after the actual war. What a silly logic - an atrocity doesen't become any less condemnable by referring to another atrocity! And still, i've encountered this kind of argumentation quite often in the past. In my eyes, that's just an attempt to relativise guilt and - in the worst cases - to victimise a guilty party. A common problem of nationalism, i guess.

[NGTM-1R]

I thought some international agreement stipulates that losers of WWII cannot have military strength over a certain amount? IIRC that's why JP lacks an "army" and instead has a "self-defense force"?

While arguably not internal in origin, much like Austria's neutrality clauses there is a great deal of domestic support for it.

[karajorma]

Well I'm not familiar enough with the politics of Japan to know this for certain but it seems to me like Abe is playing a pretty dangerous game. Having opened the door with this statement, what is he going to do if someone flat out asks him if the Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbour was justified?

Cause I'm sure the American public won't mind hearing how Pearl Harbour wasn't just militarily but also morally acceptable.

[StarSlayer]

Considering a vocal and fruity portion got up in arms because Obama bowed to the Emperor(though as a Kendo practitioner I can attest to it being a horribly executed bow) then yeah 'murica would be less than thrilled.

[Spoon]

When I first arrived in China I very quickly noticed that the Chinese hate the Japanese. At first I thought it a little silly to still hate them over a war that ended more than 60 years ago but it's pretty obvious that the Japanese are trying really hard to keep the hatred alive.

Japanese, Chinese and Koreans all hate each other. And they are all doing an equal amount of dumb provocations to each other to keep that hatred alive.

Japan still needs to work out its role in WW2.

In a sense, they have, and that's the problem. To be born in Asia, prior to WW2, was to be born chattel. It was sometimes implicit, and sometimes literal, but for every Asian country save Japan it was universally true. To be Asian was to be considered inferior. But Japan was in a position to do something about that. World War 2 in the Pacific, in a very real way, happened because Japan was seizing the opportunity to strike at those who had oppressed the region for generations.

Japan cast itself as liberator from white imperialism. It is the only war goal that Japan can be said to have actually achieved. By their victories in World War 2 they irrevocably destroyed the legitimacy of the colonial powers in Asia and freed an entire continent from western imperialism. To the Japanese mindset, which often values the integrity of the act more than the outcome of it, that cloak of purpose is what truly matters. This is at the heart of their inability examine their own actions during WW2 with anything like the seriousness their victims typically feel is necessary.

Good post

[karajorma]

Where on Earth did you get the idea that the Chinese hate the Koreans from?

[Dragon]

He could've been referring to South Koreans.

[Phantom Hoover]

Where on Earth did you get the idea that the Chinese hate the Koreans from?

somewhere like this i guess?

[NGTM-1R]

Where on Earth did you get the idea that the Chinese hate the Koreans from?

You do realize there's enough historical animosity between Korea and China, usually about Korea's stubborn refusal to be conquered and sometimes striking back, to make most European country feuds look tame?

[Swifty]

Japanese, Chinese and Koreans all hate each other. And they are all doing an equal amount of dumb provocations to each other to keep that hatred alive.

Much of the anger towards Japan has been towards their inability to take full ownership of what the country did in WWII, at least to the extent that Germany took ownership of Nazi Germany. I doubt many of the provocations done by Koreans (Speaking as a Korean-American, I can't speak for Chinese) towards the Japanese would not be as frequent if Japan didn't downplay the documented abuses they've done.

[Spoon]

Much of the anger towards Japan has been towards their inability to take full ownership of what the country did in WWII, at least to the extent that Germany took ownership of Nazi Germany. I doubt many of the provocations done by Koreans (Speaking as a Korean-American, I can't speak for Chinese) towards the Japanese would not be as frequent if Japan didn't downplay the documented abuses they've done.

Silly Koreans. Why can't you just admit that Glorious Nippon only had your best interest in mind when they invaded you over and over again?

Where on Earth did you get the idea that the Chinese hate the Koreans from?

I dunno man, I read the internet and stuff. It has things written on the subject about it.

[karajorma]

I live in China, watch Chinese news and talk to the Chinese and have heard very little about it. Some how I doubt they dislike the Koreans anywhere near the level they dislike the Japanese.

Even the wikipedia link basically shows that it's the actions of a very vocal minority.

However, despite the internet debate, China's view of Korea is generally fine.One survey reports "good relations" reached 50.2% of the respondents, the "general" up to 40.8% while "an anti-Korean sentiment" of the small proportion of respondents was only 4.4 to 6.1%

I'm sure you could find similar figures in many national rivalries.