Author Topic: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?  (Read 6284 times)

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Offline jr2

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
There is a reason we ***** about gasoline prices.  We HAVE to drive.  The majority of the residents of the UK do not.

Yeah, pretty much what I was trying to say.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
my commute to work right now is 33 miles.  in just a few days, it will return to "only" 16 when i move back to my normal yard.
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Offline BloodEagle

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
There is a reason we ***** about gasoline prices.  We HAVE to drive.  The majority of the residents of the UK do not.

Incidentally, this is also why we ***** about the state of our roads and the inability of local government to fix them.

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
my commute to work right now is 33 miles.  in just a few days, it will return to "only" 16 when i move back to my normal yard.

:wtf:  And I thought 27 was bad.  I hope you at least happen to have an auto that gets decent gas mileage. 

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
my commute to work right now is 33 miles.  in just a few days, it will return to "only" 16 when i move back to my normal yard.

:wtf:  And I thought 27 was bad.  I hope you at least happen to have an auto that gets decent gas mileage.

nope.  1999 ford expedition.  haven't done the math in a while, but the very MOST it's ever gotten is 20.  on top of that, part of that 33 miles is through hampton roads' FABULOUS bridge/tunnel system that backs up 5-7 miles every day.  and then there's the extra fun days where they close one of them, or dip****s wreck at BOTH of them at the same time and trap you on the wrong side of the river.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
My dad had a job for almost a decade where he had to commute a good 50-60 miles one-way every day of the week.  Even a few-cent increase at the pump starts adding up pretty quickly.

  

Offline jr2

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
my commute to work right now is 33 miles.  in just a few days, it will return to "only" 16 when i move back to my normal yard.

:wtf:  And I thought 27 was bad.  I hope you at least happen to have an auto that gets decent gas mileage.

nope.  1999 ford expedition.  haven't done the math in a while, but the very MOST it's ever gotten is 20.  on top of that, part of that 33 miles is through hampton roads' FABULOUS bridge/tunnel system that backs up 5-7 miles every day.  and then there's the extra fun days where they close one of them, or dip****s wreck at BOTH of them at the same time and trap you on the wrong side of the river.

you might want pick up a cheap 2nd auto, a 4-cylinder Hyundai / Honda / Kia / Saturn / Subaru / Suzuki or similar (anything with a 2 Liter engine or less) just for that commute.  It'll save you the money you spend pretty quick I bet.  Esp. if it's a stick but that's a pain in traffic.  My wife picked up an automatic 4-door Saturn with 186K on it for $895.  It's a little dinged up but gets ~30-35MPG highway depending.  It's got 200K on it now, going strong.

A lot of those brand cars (if they are taken care of at least halfheartedly through their different owners) will last to 300-500K with some maintenance and regular engine oil level monitoring <-- Important, cause at high miles they usually start to use oil, so check it at every fill-up, it won't hurt and keeping the oil topped off saves engine wear and helps maintain that great fuel economy that you got the car for (and engine power).

/end de-rail

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
it's almost never cheaper to buy a new (i don't mean factory new here) than to just eat the difference in gas mileage.  and i certainly have no interest in maintaining 2 cars.  when it comes time to get a new car anyway, i'll take gas mileage into consideration, but until then, i'm keeping the tank.  runs perfectly, other than the brakes i had replaced about a year and a half ago are annoyingly squeally.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
Heh, you work 5 days a week?  33 miles * 2 (there and back) * 5 days a week * 4.33 weeks in a month (52 / 12) = 1430 miles per month.  Let's say you get 18 MPG.  You'll then use 80 gallons of fuel. At $3.50 per gallon that's $280 per month, or $3,360 per year. 

Now, if you were getting 35 MPG, you would be using 40 gallons of fuel, so you would be paying  $140 per month, or $1,680 per year, for a savings of the same amount.  I'm betting you end up with a lot worse with a large vehicle in stop and go traffic though, say, 14 MPG?

Your point about maintaining two vehicles is only partially valid - you will only drive one at a time, thus accumulating wear and tear on one at a time (e.g., you'll mostly be using the brakes on one, so you won't have to replace the brakes on the other nearly as often).  However, there's also the breakdown associated with time, so that's partially true.

Anyways, it all depends on getting a good vehicle.  If you get a lemon it'll more than burn through the savings from better gas mileage.  Eh, so, YMMV.  ;)  I wonder, though, if your situation would actually benefit from a hybrid vehicle.  If you were only on battery in the stop and go it'd probably save you quite a bit.

Alright, I'm done rambling, I promise this time!  :)

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
by "maintaining" i meant EVERYTHING involved in owning two vehicles, not just the literal maintenance.  registration.  taxes.  insurance.  hell, even parking the damn thing.  and primarily, the fact that there would be literally zero benefit to having two cars.  (ok, i suppose i can throw a surfboard in the back of an SUV easier)

and you forgot the biggest expense in your math.  the price of the new car.  let's say, for ease of estimation, $16,000.  that's 10 years to break even.  so no, gas economy is not a good reason for me to buy a new car.


btw, i'm back to 16 mile commute now.  so double that to 20 years.
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
so, im not quite sure why we can be so sure that this price fixing must be limited to Europe.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
so, im not quite sure why we can be so sure that this price fixing must be limited to Europe.

It's not.  There is no way a $0.12/L jump in price THE DAY BEFORE A LONG WEEKEND is market forces at work, particularly because there is no way every gas station in the city got filled up on the same day with the same batch from the refineries.

Free market competition brings prices down, my ass.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
that kindof IS market forces at work.  gas stations know people want to drive over the holiday and will pay the extra.  they also know every other station will also be raising prices, so they can get away with it too.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
that kindof IS market forces at work.  gas stations know people want to drive over the holiday and will pay the extra.  they also know every other station will also be raising prices, so they can get away with it too.

The point is that "invisible hand" advocates for free-market principles universally tout the benefits of the free market because competition purportedly brings prices down, when we know full well that human greed results in those with monopolies colluding on the pricing structures to gouge wherever they can.

It's market forces at work all right, and an excellent demonstrator of why capitalist free-market economic theory is complete and utter bull****.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
monopolies are bad.  therefore, the economic theory that acknowledges this is bull****?   :wtf:
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
monopolies are bad.  therefore, the economic theory that acknowledges this is bull****?   :wtf:

Perhaps you should read the post again.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
monopolies are bad.  therefore, the economic theory that acknowledges this is bull****?   :wtf:

Perhaps you should read the post again.

Indeed he should.
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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
monopolies are bad.  therefore, the economic theory that acknowledges this is bull****?   :wtf:

no, the economic theory that denies that monopolies arise at all is bull****
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Offline Mars

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
that kindof IS market forces at work.  gas stations know people want to drive over the holiday and will pay the extra.  they also know every other station will also be raising prices, so they can get away with it too.

The point is that "invisible hand" advocates for free-market principles universally tout the benefits of the free market because competition purportedly brings prices down, when we know full well that human greed results in those with monopolies colluding on the pricing structures to gouge wherever they can.

It's market forces at work all right, and an excellent demonstrator of why capitalist free-market economic theory is complete and utter bull****.

Haven't various game theory models reliably predicted this kind of behavior? What sort of effort been made to predict outcomes in the context of a laissez-faire economy?

 

Offline Al-Rik

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Re: Possible decade of Oil Price Fixing?
The point is that "invisible hand" advocates for free-market principles universally tout the benefits of the free market because competition purportedly brings prices down, .
Did they tell what ?
The benefit of a free market is a free, decentralized and efficient price fixing. It's about efficiency, not about low prices.

The advocates of socialism don't care about efficiency, the care about moral, so the price would be fixed by persons with a higher moral standard than the average human. No greed, only the best for the people (low prices for fuel) or the planet (high prices for fuel). That's much better than greed, isn't it ? ;)

How would price fixing would work without free market ?
The central price fixing agency determinates the during the holiday season the price will be lowered, and also determinates that more fuel is delivered to the gas station because of the higher demands ?
Delivering more fuel to the gas station is more expensive, but because the people have a right for cheap fuel the good guys from the fixing agency don't charge more ?