[MP-Ryan]

The guy is a muslim, he commits a barbaric crime for his religion, current news show lots of muslims commiting barbaric crimes worse than this for the same reason. My opinion of them is at a all time low. If any other group carried out similar behavior I would hate them equaly.

Not going to say the religion is evil but they've clearly taken the whole thing to an extreme.

Totally agree.

I feel the same way about Christianity.  There are a couple Christians in the US that murder doctors performing abortions through bombing because of their religion, current news shows a lot of Christians commit hateful acts and say hateful things as bad or worse than this for the same reason.  My opinion of them is at an all time low.  If any other group carried out similar behaviour I would hate them equally.

Not going to say their religion is evil but they've clearly taken the whole thing to an extreme.

[MP-Ryan]

There is a very good reason why you occasionally have Muslim leaders reiterating that these extremists do not share the view of the silent majority: because they really don't. If they did, there will be several countries in the world today that simply cannot exist.

Lip service.  It's just like the extreme-right Christians in the US.  Oh, sure, every now and then a leader that says something a little too frank gets outed because they can't have the appearance of being as extreme as they are, but it's patently obvious that the silent majority agree with them.

(Once upon a midnight dreary...)

[Sarafan]

Oh my god.

So you're not saing Islam is evil, but it is actually evil?

Please take a moment to reflect on the biases you have taken as fact that came in from the various news reports you have consumed over the past few years. "Muslims" make up a quarter of the worlds population. You're judging them by the behaviour of a couple thousand individuals. If you can't see why that's a bad idea, why embracing such a mindset more or less disqualifies you from being part of this debate, then I suggest you reexamine your stance on this issue.

I'm not saying the religion is evil because there are countless examples of muslims living perfectly fine with the rest of world, what I'm saying is that to me it looks like the majority has taken their ideals to such an extreme that they feel perfectly justified in engaging in this behaviour.

There is a very good reason why you occasionally have Muslim leaders reiterating that these extremists do not share the view of the silent majority: because they really don't. If they did, there will be several countries in the world today that simply cannot exist.

Yeah, muslim countries today are a bastion of stability and order. It's just like MP-Ryan says, lip service.

[StarSlayer]

It's just like MP-Ryan says, lip service.

Your grasp of sarcasm is astounding.

[MP-Ryan]

Whoops, can't delete, see below.

[MP-Ryan]

I'm not saying the religion is evil because there are countless examples of muslims living perfectly fine with the rest of world, what I'm saying is that to me it looks like the majority has taken their ideals to such an extreme that they feel perfectly justified in engaging in this behaviour.

There are a lot of great high-profile examples... in no particular order:

-Mumbai Bombing
-9/11
-7/7
-Rocket launches on Israel
-Ft. Benning
-Woolwich
-Boston Marathon

Nevermind the current political situations in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.  These are all clear indicators that the majority of Muslims support violence, in some cases extreme violence, to promote their religious agenda.

(while I pondered weak and weary)

[MP-Ryan]

You guys criticizing Sarafan are clearly falling into the trap of political correctness.  There is a pile of evidence from the news that shows Islam has become far more extreme and violent than any other religion, and the majority of its members silently agree with this direction.  How else to explain the nightly news, and the fact that Muslims are constantly featured in acts of terror?

(over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore)

[karajorma]

Oh FFS.

Thread closed. Bans handed out. For those acting sarcastic too, there's no point in sarcasm against those who don't understand it.

[karajorma]

I'll the comment MP-Ryan sent me cause I can see why he wouldn't want anyone believe the sarcastic stuff he posted in the last few posts was real. Since I only banned him until I could have a word with him about how his sarcasm had gone too far, I'll add it here.

I don't know if you'd like to add it to the thread or not, but here is basically what I was going to say to tie things up after Sarafan's next response:

For those wondering and who didn't get the reference immediately, the bracketed phrases are quotations from a famous poem - Edgar Allan Poe's "The Raven."

Clearly I don't agree in the slightest with what Sarafan is posting, which is why I first parodied, then agreed with over-the-top examples of what he's saying.  Alternatively, I could have used examples like "Some European's settling in Brazil following the Second World War were Nazis escaping justice; therefore, all Brazilians supported the Nazi's extermination of Jews." (Poe and Godwin in the same thread!).

Given the population of Muslims on the planet, and their diversity of beliefs, it is ludicrous to take the extreme ideology of a few and tar the majority with it, particularly as that [historically silent] majority is now starting to take the brave step of publicly denouncing and refuting the claims of said extremists.

The world has seen this type of violence in many forms over the centuries - often religion is a motivator, but scientific and philosophical beliefs aren't immune to use as justification either.  Ultimately, what we should be concerned about are PEOPLE, not necessarily their beliefs.  Rationality and irrationality exist across the religious, political, philosophical, and [yes, even] scientific spectrums.  It is when irrational beliefs coincide with a propensity to use violence/extremism and the unmitigated belief that the person is right or just in their beliefs which in turn justifies any method that we should be concerned.

In short, assigning blame to a majority of a group for the actions of individuals motivated by a tiny extremist segment of that group is patently unjust and frankly unhelpful to addressing the problems.  Meanwhile, large groups need to be cognizant of these extremist segments and actively work toward stamping them out - as, indeed, the Muslim community has.  Canada has a recent case where an imam called police to report some worrisome extremists; it foiled a bomb plot and has led to arrest and prosecution.

Up to you.

[Colonol Dekker]

I'd let it stand, my unit's been in two national papers laying wreaths, I'm a soldier, I grew up in south east London but I'm afraid my guys were just doing it to be seen. The lad had no connection to us whatsoever, it's commutable that about seems it.