[Luis Dias]

Yes, but the question raised is if whether games reinforce this behavior or not. Many argue there is no evidence that they do, so prima facie they don't. It's an argument that is born out of being from an extreme skeptical community that bows down to that hardcore line of "you declare it, you provide evidence for it", and they'll probably not flinch an eye if it doesn't come from a "Pieeerreviewd'papaer" from Nature and so on (as if there ain't innumerous bull**** that gets published and peer reviewed anyway).

I'd say they prima facie do, and it's any skeptic's job to prove they don't, but as you may be aware this is not a proper base for any conversation.

[Lorric]

The problem is it comes down to belief and nothing else. It's like two people of different religions trying to convert each other. It's not going to happen. If you don't relate to it straight away, more of the same isn't going to make any difference, and certainly telling me how I think when I don't think that way is not going to make any difference. And if you believe in it, no amount of me telling you you're paranoid/overthinking/digging around for dirt so can't stop finding it, is going to sway you. And both sides are going to want hard evidence to even think about changing their mind. Who is going to let someone they don't even know and don't agree with change the way their mind works?

This has all been a big waste of time and energy. I would suggest everyone just leave those on the other side of the fence to what they're on alone. Let this subject matter burn, and let it never be spoken of again, it's as bad and as useless as theist vs different theist or theist vs atheist. Someone of the opposite persuasion is about as welcome as someone from a religion you don't subscribe to knocking on your door and trying to convert you. To clarify, I am speaking of those who think Anita is correct vs. those who do not. Not those who are sexist vs those who are not.

but as you may be aware this is not a proper base for any conversation.

Never a truer word was spoken in this thread. I certainly am aware. If only you had come earlier.

[General Battuta]

It doesn't come down to belief. One big reason I got involved in feminism and the fight against modern forms of misogyny is the scientific evidence for frequency-driven attitude heuristics.

This subject matter is going to remain important, and it's going to remain talked about. Take some time to do some reading.

[Lorric]

It doesn't come down to belief. The big reason I got involved in feminism and the fight against modern forms of misogyny is the scientific evidence for frequency-driven attitude heuristics.

This subject matter is going to remain important, and it's going to remain talked about. Take some time to do some reading.

I suppose it can be talked about, just as long as no one goes chasing people of an opposite persuasion. That's where the trouble starts.

[General Battuta]

People have every right to be intolerant of intolerance, and if they can make substantive arguments that (for example) gamer culture is deeply, profoundly misogynistic, and you disagree, you are - rightly - going to be called to task to back your position up.  (Just this week, during a major on-stage press event by a huge gaming corporation, a male performer dropped an improv rape joke at a female performer.)

[Lorric]

People have every right to be intolerant of intolerance, and if they can make substantive arguments that (for example) gamer culture is deeply, profoundly misogynistic, and you disagree, you are - rightly - going to be called to task to back your position up.  (Just this week, during a major on-stage press event by a huge gaming corporation, a male performer dropped an improv rape joke at a female performer.)

So that's what you were talking about in the E3 thread. I haven't seen it.

I don't even disagree about gamer culture as a whole. You can see me in the other Tropes thread saying I think all the generic scantily clad pretty girls are wrong, with The E saying Anita will release a video on that subject. I may well agree with that one if I see it. I've had my fill of all this though. But the video in this subject, and the pair of videos in the other one I don't. That doesn't mean I don't think there are parts of the gaming industry that need to get their act together.

But all you've really hit me with is your beliefs, which I refute. And you refute mine. The one time some actual facts came into the discussion about the empathy thing I conceded.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, all we've hit you with is our beliefs, as well as the logical inconsistency of your stances and their incompatibility with the available empirical evidence, glazed with a couple peer reviewed papers. If you've had a fill of a topic you brought up in a thread you started, maybe the problem is that your position is untenable.

[Lorric]

Yeah, all we've hit you with is our beliefs, as well as the logical inconsistency of your stances and their incompatibility with the available empirical evidence, glazed with a couple peer reviewed papers. If you've had a fill of a topic you brought up in a thread you started, maybe the problem is that your position is untenable.

No, no, we're not doing this. And I'm sure you know exactly what I mean by I've had my fill of all this.

[The E]

The only belief me, Batman, NGTM1R and others have on this issue is this: We believe that women must be treated with the same amount of respect as men. We believe that the reinforcement of negative stereotypes needs to stop and be replaced with a more rounded approach towards creating new pieces of pop culture.

Everything else follows from that. Every position we've taken in this and the other thread is an expression of that core belief, and we've got studies documenting inequality and disrespect to remind us that we've still got a long way to go.

Can you make a similar statement about your beliefs, Lorric?

[Lorric]

The only belief me, Batman, NGTM1R and others have on this issue is this: We believe that women must be treated with the same amount of respect as men. We believe that the reinforcement of negative stereotypes needs to stop and be replaced with a more rounded approach towards creating new pieces of pop culture.

Everything else follows from that. Every position we've taken in this and the other thread is an expression of that core belief, and we've got studies documenting inequality and disrespect to remind us that we've still got a long way to go.

Can you make a similar statement about your beliefs, Lorric?

And the only opposition I have is what defines a negative stereotype.

[MP-Ryan]

And the only opposition I have is what defines a negative stereotype.

If you're arguing that the stereotype about which this thread began is not a negative stereotype, I'm sorry to tell you that you're on the wrong side of history.