[Flipside]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22793851

Apparently the US government have been making extremely free with their monitoring powers lately....

[The E]

From the article:

The US government has previously said obtaining metadata does not require a warrant because it does not constitute personal information.

I have to ask then, what use is this data for law enforcement personnel? There probably are a few arcane statistical tricks one can do with this sort of data, but can they actually show a quantifiable effect on investigations?

[Nuke]

im glad i dont use phones.

[Dragon]

I have to ask then, what use is this data for law enforcement personnel? There probably are a few arcane statistical tricks one can do with this sort of data, but can they actually show a quantifiable effect on investigations?

Yeah, I wonder what do they want to do with all this data. Are they looking for something/someone? I don't think that the average Joe's phone calls are of any interest to NSA, and that's 99% of what they'll get out of this.

[BloodEagle]

I would imagine they use the records to (attempt to) create trees of suspected cells.

I mean, really, the only thing you can use that type of data for is to determine who is talking to whom and for how long.  Unless it contains the current location of the participants (which the article doesn't mention), that is.

[NGTM-1R]

From the article:

The US government has previously said obtaining metadata does not require a warrant because it does not constitute personal information.

I have to ask then, what use is this data for law enforcement personnel? There probably are a few arcane statistical tricks one can do with this sort of data, but can they actually show a quantifiable effect on investigations?

Traffic analysis is an old and respected art in the intelligence community.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Looks like they have been doing a lot more then just getting phone data:  http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/06/politics/nsa-internet-mining/index.html

[StarSlayer]

Welcome to the Patriot Act. 

[Luis Dias]

Welcome to the Patriot Act.

Really. I am mostly aghast with the media's reaction. They *ought* to know this was going on already, or are they unable to follow logic?

This is what the governments have been doing for the past 60 years, now just scarier because the tech is better.

In 10 years, people will find out that the government had access to the new Xbox One's camera to monitor "possible terrorists" and they'll play all this faux-indignated pose again, wondering why they didn't pay attention to all those who were paranoid right now.

[Aardwolf]

So, what are the odds that this somehow leads to some kind of change?

I'd like to see a politician campaigning on a platform of "will put a stop to this sort of NSA/DHS/FBI/TSA/CIA bull****" 

[General Battuta]

So, what are the odds that this somehow leads to some kind of change?

I'd like to see a politician campaigning on a platform of "will put a stop to this sort of NSA/DHS/FBI/TSA/CIA bull****" 

That politician was Barack Obama. It didn't last very long.

[SpardaSon21]

Funny how actually being in charge of all that power managed to change his views on it...

[Klaustrophobia]

So, what are the odds that this somehow leads to some kind of change?

I'd like to see a politician campaigning on a platform of "will put a stop to this sort of NSA/DHS/FBI/TSA/CIA bull****" 

That politician was Barack Obama. It didn't last very long.

and it will be the next one too.  hopefully whoever it is can do at least a little better and not actively exacerbate the problem. 

Funny how actually being in charge of all that power managed to change his views on it...

if it was ever actually his view to begin with and not just lip service.

[NGTM-1R]

Funny how actually being in charge of all that power managed to change his views on it...

Oddly, it turns out this stuff is really useful.

[Mika]

Yeah, it's a lot bigger than just phone records, basically now all US companies are suspect of this.

I'm quite intrigued to see how the rest of the world will react on next week. I'm probably going to switch to alternative operating systems and reduce the FB usage and switch once a non-US alternative has been established. Windows 8 does make the OS decision very easy, but there is no viable Finnish alternative to FB. I'd be surprised if the IT departments will allow the usage of FB as much as they have now allowed in the companies.

Also I do recall that this has been rumored in internet for a long time, I stumbled across it basically on the very first year. This is just a sort of confirmation of it.

[Rampage]

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson, 3rd US President

[Dragon]

TBH, sometimes I'm not quite sure what all those people are afraid of. If you're not doing anything illegal, then your data is of no interest to the government and will probably be discarded as "background noise" (BTW, I also wonder why, despite all those intelligence systems, you're still required to to fill in your basic personal info, in multiple copies, whenever you want something from the government. You'd think they'd now that already...). If you're doing something illegal, well, then you shouldn't complain that the government may want to stop you doing that. Stuff is usually illegal for a reason, afterall.

[StarSlayer]

Personally, my major concern is the lack of oversight.  The Patriot Act was crammed in under the pall of 9/11 and gives the Feds considerable powers and very little too check possible abuse.

[Aardwolf]

@Dragon:

"They have no reason to come to our place."
"Don't worry, they'll find one."

Alternatively, Kafka's The Trial

[BloodEagle]

TBH, sometimes I'm not quite sure what all those people are afraid of. If you're not doing anything illegal, then your data is of no interest to the government and will probably be discarded as "background noise" [...]

I will never understand how people can hold this opinion.  History has proven time and again that authority figures and organizations will take advantage of (if not outright murder) innocent people if not checked.

Stuff is usually illegal for a reason, afterall.

And usually the reasoning is unethical. (some might say 'evil')

http://facts.randomhistory.com/crazy-laws.html