[pecenipicek]

Do you? Or do you think us now as equally screwed as the rest of the EU or worse?

(if i have to stuff links here, i wouldnt know where to start)

[An4ximandros]

 Yer equally forked

 Seriously, whoever though joining the EU now was good needs a slap in the face. With all the problems with the economy, joining the EU as a weak one sounds like suicide.

[Kobrar44]

I read somewhere that Croatians are actually against entering EU and they just didn't bother to vote. That would be quite hilarious.

[Dragon]

Welcome aboard. Please take your seat and relax as the ship slowly sinks beneath the waves. You got what you wanted, I hope you're happy now.

[Mebber]

"Or do you think us now as equally screwed as the rest of the EU or worse?"

I have... no idea.

The whole EU-debates are just so polarising. Regardless of which specific part of it - benefits/drawback of the euro, new member states, crisis politics, whatever -, there are strong voices either proclaiming impending doom as well as the opposite. For every expert evaluating a certain action positive, there's another one evaluating it as negative. Unfortunately, i'm really not that much into economics, so i find it hard to actually see through this mess and form an own well-based opinion about it.

Same with Croatia: i've actually read a few statements that it's not only good for Croatia/the EU from an ideological, but also from an economical perspective...

Anyway, welcome in the EU. Let's hope the best..

[Black Wolf]

I'm. Kind of getting the impression that joining the EU is good, but joining the Eurozone (i.e. shared currency) would be a a very bad idea right now.

[SypheDMar]

Same here. Nothing is inherently wrong with being in the EU. Britain is EU with its own currency. Eurozone is a different topic. The trade policies can only help Croatia, I'd imagine.

[Mebber]

They plan to join the eurozone asap - around 2018-2020 i've read. If they don't abolish the euro until then, that is.

[Grizzly]

Dunno if they are aboloshing the euro just yet. Aboloshing the euro right now just because it's in bad waters for hte first time seems a little too early, not to mention the costs of converting back.
The EU's ultimate goal, after all, is to become a power block that can match or exceed nations like China or the USA in economic strength. The Euro's problems right now are due to several countries not really helping in that direction at the moment. Cutting the Euro would be fighting the symptons.

[Dragon]

Same here. Nothing is inherently wrong with being in the EU. Britain is EU with its own currency. Eurozone is a different topic. The trade policies can only help Croatia, I'd imagine.

Actually, EU membership itself can force you to sign some pretty stupid policies. It did have some benefits, but I think that right now, it's not that great of an idea.

[pecenipicek]

I read somewhere that Croatians are actually against entering EU and they just didn't bother to vote. That would be quite hilarious.

yes, because a referendum is not a legal requirement before becoming a EU state... Also...
(getting almost half the population to actually go out and vote was an achievement in and on itself)


but yes, there's been assholes running around the internet and spilling bile and vomit of the worst sort everywhere, which does give a bit of a biased impression.


as a side note, the euro wont be coming around and replacing our currency any time soon. too much national pride, yadda yadda.

[Luis Dias]

As long as the Croats don't enter the eurozone, they'll be fine.

[The E]

Same here. Nothing is inherently wrong with being in the EU. Britain is EU with its own currency. Eurozone is a different topic. The trade policies can only help Croatia, I'd imagine.

Actually, EU membership itself can force you to sign some pretty stupid policies. It did have some benefits, but I think that right now, it's not that great of an idea.

You should probably elaborate on what you think of as stupid policies.

[Nakura]

I read somewhere that Croatians are actually against entering EU and they just didn't bother to vote. That would be quite hilarious.

I also read that all of the major newspapers and news outlets in Croatia rigorously advocated for joining the EU and that the media didn't present both sides of the debate.

[Gray113]

Its funny that in Scotland (where the electorite is mostly left wing and pro EU although a sizeable minority is very anti EU) we are faced with a Westminister government that is increasingly anti EU saying that it wants to renegotiate their position within the EU and an English electorate that polls say what to pull out of the EU.

At the same time we are told by the Westminister government that If we leave the UK then we will be kicked out of the EU and will lose all the benefits of being a part of the European union.

In most cases the governments are using the EU as a scapegoat for their own economic policies and the right wing populist press in these countries are more than happy to play the nationalism card (see Spain, Greece, Italy, England, France, etc). At the end of the day all of these governments are well aware of the benefits that the EU brings however they are stoking up resentment in order to boost their own flagging popularity.

[Luis Dias]

Gray, you have no idea of what you are talking about. Let me educate you on a basic level: all those governments you have listed are trapped in a monetary system that refuses to do what it should do to ameliorate their economic woes. Instead, what they have to do is to incur on extremely problematic and politically suicidal constant wage cuts in every single public sector, which then drives the consumption and tax revenues down, and thus worsening their debt status.

Portugal, the country you didn't list, is doing "apparently" what these folks have decided is the medicine. And what are the results of draconian spending cuts? A deficit of more than 10% this year and an economy tanking 4% a year. Of course no one wants to leave the euro *right now*, that would be one step towards the precipice, but staying isn't better.

This idea that these countries are "benefitting" from remaining in the eurozone is something that no longer *anyone* believes, except for some distracted folks out there.

[Gray113]

Oh I'm sorry it was the EU that persuaded the governments of Portugal, Spain, and Greece to rack up enormous debts that they do not have a chance in hell of paying back? My partner is Galician I have spent time in both Spain and Portugal and belive me I do know what I am talking about. The politicians that the people there elected are corrupt and incompetent. Before joining the Euro they could blag their way out of these problems by devaluing their currency's, now they have to rely on the generosity of German tax payers who understandably have reservations about lending more money to these same politicians and so will ensure that strings are attached. Incidentally I do not agree with these conditions however seen as the same politicians who caused this mess are still in charge and will most likely piss this money away then I don't think that I'm in a position to criticise the lenders.

These countries have benefited from the EU in the past and will continue to benefit from both trade and investment in the future as a direct result of their participation in the Eurozone. Here are the figures for 2009 as an example:
                 Per capita   Percentage of GDP Total in millions of euros
Portugal    196.4         1.25                        2,087
Spain         9.7             0.04                       444
Greece       267.2        1.30                        3,009

Just to show how much these countries recived directly from the European budget. To futher my point about the politicians here is an informative video from Spain on the relationship between the ruling PP and the biblical ****up that is Bankia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udX15KarS_Q

[MP-Ryan]

Uh oh, there goes the neighborhood, we got Luis started on PIIGS again

So am I reading correctly that Croatia has joined the political EU but has not adopted the Euro, yet is planning to do so?  If so, I think some Croats just might want to go slap their politicians.  EU is a great idea; the Euro in its present configuration?  Not so much.

[headdie]

EU is a great idea; the Euro in its present configuration?  Not so much.

this

[Luis Dias]

Uh oh, there goes the neighborhood, we got Luis started on PIIGS again

You know what though? I have no time to bother with Gray's comments. I have refuted this moralistic borderline racist **** talking against the "PIIGS" over and over and over, and I'm really tired of going at it again so I just won't. He even gives numbers that aren't even properly labeled and the claim he has a "friend" over there as arguments for something he clearly hasn't spend more than a day or two sussing out. FYI Gray, I am in the middle of the hurricane and have spent the last 5 years trying to suss this **** out. At first I also attributed this to some kind of southern europe "thing", but then I educated myself. I advise you do the same before spreading nonsensical racist bull**** over the nets.

And please tell me about the "generosity" of the germans once more I'll go ballistic. (It is my educated opinion that if the Germans don't wise the F up in their monetary policies we will suffer barbarically for dozens of years).

Bah whatever.