[Klaustrophobia]

well if you want to restrict "rivalry" to a regular contest specifically between two sides, then yes i suppose the ashes is the biggest rivalry.

i also think it's kinda dumb to discount non-national level competition.  local levels are where the fiercest rivalries come from.

[karajorma]

Non of those dominate the sport as much as The Ashes though. Which is kind of Black Wolf's point. You don't get many local teams who won the cup but feel it was worthless cause they lost to another local team in the opening stages.

[Lorric]

While I'm not interested in cricket, I am interested in this concept. I don't understand how let's imagine England win the Ashes and Australia win the World Cup, England's win would be the greater achievement? How could beating one team mean more than beating all of the teams? What If Australia destroyed England in the group stage then destroyed them again in the final of the World Cup? Would England still have the greater achievement? Also, the World Cup is only once every 4 years.

[NGTM-1R]

Non of those dominate the sport as much as The Ashes though. Which is kind of Black Wolf's point. You don't get many local teams who won the cup but feel it was worthless cause they lost to another local team in the opening stages.

Again, until you've gone to war over a match, you've not really managed to capture the kind of passion some European nations have over their football rivalries.

Or hell, in the last seven days a player got knifed in mid-match in South America, causing the crowd to storm the field and stone the knifing party to death, and then draw and quarter them. Anybody ever done that over the Ashes?

[The E]

While I'm not interested in cricket, I am interested in this concept. I don't understand how let's imagine England win the Ashes and Australia win the World Cup, England's win would be the greater achievement? How could beating one team mean more than beating all of the teams? What If Australia destroyed England in the group stage then destroyed them again in the final of the World Cup? Would England still have the greater achievement? Also, the World Cup is only once every 4 years.

I am not sure how the relative popularity of Cricket and football looks like, but given that "The Ashes" is a singular event that is only played between England and Oz, the relative impact of winning (or losing) the Ashes is much, much greater for the fans of the sport.

[Black Wolf]

On the actual topic - stayed up late (by my standards when I'm in the field for work) to watch Haddin and Pattinson come oh, oh so close to a massive upset. Haddin looked close to tears on his way off the pitch, poor bastard. It's the top order that lost the match though, no question. There'll be some changes for sure for the next one, I'm thinking at the very least Cowan will go out for Kawaja.

[karajorma]

Again, until you've gone to war over a match, you've not really managed to capture the kind of passion some European nations have over their football rivalries.

Or hell, in the last seven days a player got knifed in mid-match in South America, causing the crowd to storm the field and stone the knifing party to death, and then draw and quarter them. Anybody ever done that over the Ashes?

What you're missing is that The Ashes are really a sporting rivalry, not a different rivalry carried out under the guise of being about a sport.

When England play Australia at football, no one really gives a ****.

Besides I'm English, so let's ignore how silly it is to attempt to tell me that football fans can sometimes go too far.

[Lorric]

Besides I'm English, so let's ignore how silly it is to attempt to tell me that football fans can sometimes go too far.

I know why you're saying that, but since HLP is multinational, I want to point out this has been all but wiped out now in English fans. I say it because plenty of people still believe English fans are dangerous.

As for England/Australia, I don't know if they've ever even met in a competitive fixture, and the odds are long for that to happen.

[Black Wolf]

While I'm not interested in cricket, I am interested in this concept. I don't understand how let's imagine England win the Ashes and Australia win the World Cup, England's win would be the greater achievement? How could beating one team mean more than beating all of the teams? What If Australia destroyed England in the group stage then destroyed them again in the final of the World Cup? Would England still have the greater achievement? Also, the World Cup is only once every 4 years.

Missed this before - yes, if Australia won the world cup, but lost the Ashes, England would have had the greater achievement, because the World Cup is a one-day tournament, and do less prestigious generally than a test victory. But also, in large part, because - again - there is no prize in the game that matters the way the Ashes matter.

[Lorric]

While I'm not interested in cricket, I am interested in this concept. I don't understand how let's imagine England win the Ashes and Australia win the World Cup, England's win would be the greater achievement? How could beating one team mean more than beating all of the teams? What If Australia destroyed England in the group stage then destroyed them again in the final of the World Cup? Would England still have the greater achievement? Also, the World Cup is only once every 4 years.

Missed this before - yes, if Australia won the world cup, but lost the Ashes, England would have had the greater achievement, because the World Cup is a one-day tournament, and do less prestigious generally than a test victory. But also, in large part, because - again - there is no prize in the game that matters the way the Ashes matter.

I'm a big fan of international football. More than any other sport or club football. But if what you say is really true, I can consider the idea that it's the biggest rivalry in the context of national teams in World sport. Even if I don't care about it, it's kind of nice that my country is involved in it. I think importance in terms of prestige and how much it matters to the fans beats how much violence is involved in something. Real sports fans don't go around cracking heads open. Those people aren't fans, they're scum. Thugs. Trash. There are rivalries in International football, some pretty intense ones, but I can't imagine anyone trading in a trophy for a victory over their top rival.

[Hobbie]

The Ashes has kicked off again in Brisbane today, and once again Michael Clarke is in fine form, getting Done for One. Current score is 5/108 with Stuart Broad having four of those wickets.

Yeah, the state of Australian cricketers has left me somewhat despondent.

(I was gonna create a new topic but then I remembered this one was here)

[Veers]

Haven't turned it on yet, but might wait until we're all out and see what reply we have in our bowling attack.

I'm so out of touch with Cricket, got no idea.

[Black Wolf]

Wow. All I can say at this point. That and Go Nathan Lyon!

[Hobbie]

This has really been a bowler's test so far. The only real notable performance I've seen from any of the batsmen was Haddin, and that came as a bit of a shock. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets promoted a little bit after his first innings. It was a bit disappointing that he lost his century, but then again, he lost it because he was dumb and he took a risk he shouldn't have.

Johnson is bowling beautifully, Lyon not far behind. I honestly expected this to be Harris's innings entirely but I'm pleasantly surprised. I saw Lyon bowl at the NSW vs Tas game a few weeks ago and he was doing alright then, but his bowling today is far more threatening. Of course, Stuart Broad is bowling expertly as well, but as an Australian it's my duty to grumble about this.

EDIT: I hope Broad isn't the hope that England is pinning everything on, or the team is going to collapse if he fails. Eight wickets sets a dangerous precedent, similar to Agar's 98 runs earlier in the year. Then again, he is batting well for someone so late in the order, so we'll see how it turns out.

A tad disappointed that we couldn't force a follow-on, but that's just my pride talking.

Also, quack for Prior.

EDIT2: England's done for 136. Wow. Australia have a 159 run lead to build on. Let's hit some centuries and not let those poms force a draw.

[Boomer20]

Im surprised your shocked at Haddin scoring runs.
Its good to see Lyon get some wickets, hopefully he gets even more next innings.

The concern now is that we have a tendency to bat miserably in the second innings when we have a bit of a lead.

[Veers]

England all out for that?

Huh, guess the tables have turned then. I know what I'm doing when I get home from work tomorrow.

[Hobbie]

Im surprised your shocked at Haddin scoring runs.
Its good to see Lyon get some wickets, hopefully he gets even more next innings.

The concern now is that we have a tendency to bat miserably in the second innings when we have a bit of a lead.

I'm more shocked that he's the only one scoring runs. Haddin's a good batsman, but I'd be expecting Watson, Warner or Done-For-One Clarke to be outperforming him.

Although with that shocker Watson just hit, he deserved to be caught. Your prediction on the second innings batting might be right on the money.

[Boomer20]

I was disappointed that Rogers got out for little, I was hoping he would get some runs.
That was typical Watson getting out there (I how they had the replay of him replying to the sledges of the English guys as he walked off....you could clearly see him say "F*** off mate")
About ten years ago our problem was chasing down ~100 runs or less in the second innings now however its become building on first innings leads. However you just can't tell with us until our tail order come in given they score all our runs now.

Banking on us giving them a 350-400+ run total to chase down, although we need to bat out the day here.

[Hobbie]

I think, and I might be wrong here, that Clarke will probably push as hard as he can today, then declare at the end. That will give him two days to get out the English, which is two days he will need since the poms play stalling tactics and will try and force a draw. Either way, I'm hoping for interesting cricket but I don't think the next two days will deliver it.

[Boomer20]

I was going to say but forgot to, we need to keep England within a sniff of victory otherwise they will just play out the draw.
If that occurs it will be all we hear about till the next game.
Of course if we were in England's position we would do the same thing. But that's another story.