[karajorma]

They're more a mix of the two I'd say. Some of those sounded fairly Cantonese (At least to my untrained ear). Ho for instance is a pretty common Cantonese name. I don't think it's a Korean one though. The other characters Li and Fuk are also fairly common in Chinese too.

I'm not so certain, though, that racism can be inferred from not realizing a list of names was racist. That's kind of pushing the line for me. Yes, had she thought for 20 seconds, she might have spotted it, but when you are reading from an autocue, 20 seconds is often not an option.

Who said I was on about the announcer though? I said right at the start that they were going after the wrong people.

Someone made up that list of names. They're the racist. Maybe not a bigot but making up that list of names is racist.

Try watching Chris Rock's bit on the difference between blacks and niggers. The whole thing is incredibly funny but also incredibly racist. You can tell cause you'd be very, very careful about who was around you if you repeated those jokes. Cause there is a good chance people would hear the words you're saying and decide you're a racist.

If you don't think those jokes are also racist, let me ask you something, would you repeat them within earshot of a crowd of Korean and Chinese people you didn't know?

[SypheDMar]

I wanted to chime in sooner, but I got a little hacked off at the thread for debating if the names were racist.

I think whoever made up those names offended a lot of people and is culturally insensitive. That is why I believe that racism was involved. Racism does not need to involve a view of a "race" being superior/inferior. Moreover, physical characteristics is not the only thing that defines "race". Culture is hugely important.

The reason this joke is racist is because it is offensive to East Asians. I can imagine many from Korea and China to look at those names and think that they would never romanize their names like that. But that's not the audience of the joke. The joke targets an audience who wouldn't know any better. In this case, everyone else. And since some people in this thread are using American sounding names as a reason to say that the joke isn't racist, it reinforces the idea that Asian names are awkward and phonetic to the sounds cookwares make when thrown down a staircase. Tell me that last statement isn't racist.

On the topic of what possible place these names might be "from", I think the closest thing would be a mix of Hong Kong, Taiwanese, and Chinese romanization of their names. It's far from Korean sounding in my opinion (then again, I'm no expert).


Edit: Furthermore, I think the joke is racist towards East Asians is because it groups East Asia as a single monoculture. Koreans do not have "Chinese" looking names. If anyone called me a Kim, Nguyen, or Miyamoto, I'd be pissed. The fact that many of us compared the joke to English  names as puns in TV comedies is surprising. Does English names and German names look the same to us?

[Luis Dias]

I think people are too quick on their "RACIST!" accusations to the point of absurdity. Now anchors' own incompetence and ignorance is labeled as "racism"? Are we really aware on how this ridiculous labeling practice is actually undermining and destroying the very meaning of that word?

Or are you just too scared and intimitated of foreigns to ever make fun of their names and have a honest / funny exchange of cultural comic things with them? It almost seems to me that some people here are just too afraid to speak anything about anything, given the risk that one will "offend" some unknown other (with bad taste, clearly) that isn't even here. To say that those names aren't funny in themselves is a pure lie, period. To condemn someone as racist for laughing at them is insane. We should be a lot less frigid in these matters ffs.

[StarSlayer]

Now anchors' own incompetence and ignorance is labeled as "racism"?

How much experience do you have professionally reciting the news?  Do you know this woman personally and can make an authoritative declaration as to her competence? 

[Luis Dias]

I don't have to do that. I just have to look at her and see her struggling even to read those names, and she does not seem to even be aware of the idiocy happening. I don't even care what she is thinking or not, I just have to see what happened and what it transpires.

*IF* she was aware of it and if the intent was racist, then not only a racist ****head she would have been, she would also have been incredibly stupid for putting the broadcast channel in that position, and an incredible actor by portraying a clueless idiot who can't even bring herself to read properly the joke on screen. Why pressupose all these unprobable things? Assuming incompetence / lazyness / fast-pacing of news is sufficient to explain everything that happened on screen.

IDK if this is true but I heard it was a summer intern that "confirmed" these names. He was a smart jackass, but he did manage to make a big prank on TV. Probably unemployed by now.

[StarSlayer]

I don't have to do that. I just have to look at her and see her struggling even to read those names, and she does not seem to even be aware of the idiocy happening. I don't even care what she is thinking or not, I just have to see what happened and what it transpires.

I'm not sure what footage you're referring to, every one I've seen simply shows the list graphic while she reads them. 

[Lorric]

I don't have to do that. I just have to look at her and see her struggling even to read those names, and she does not seem to even be aware of the idiocy happening. I don't even care what she is thinking or not, I just have to see what happened and what it transpires.

I'm not sure what footage you're referring to, every one I've seen simply shows the list graphic while she reads them. 

She struggles over the names in the way anyone would with unfamiliar names. That's a big part of the reason this happens, because she's not reading them fast enough for the hidden English phrase to come out properly. That and her brain is obviously fully engaged in just reading them out. I hope nothing happens/happened to her. She was just doing her job.

Further back in the thread we have this:

I get the first and the third name, but what's the pun in the second and fourth ones?

And he knows it's a joke and is looking for the meanings, and has time to think about it. She didn't know it was a joke, nor did she have time to think about it.

Personally I think anyone who still believes she is stupid and/or incompetant is being very harsh. I feel sorry for her.

[Lorric]

If you don't think those jokes are also racist, let me ask you something, would you repeat them within earshot of a crowd of Korean and Chinese people you didn't know?

This here is a loaded question. I wouldn't use the joke, but because it's a sick joke, not a racist one.

[haloboy100]

My 2 cents:
It's only racist if it offends someone.
Everyone wants to be offended.
Ergo, everyone is racist.

So I assume these pictures are just about the Western perception of Chinese eyes, and also not racist?

Are Nikon cameras racist, then?

[Lorric]

Ah yes, I looked at that and I didn't think it was racist.

And also, I wouldn't have been in the least offended if I saw a shot of an Asian Olympic team doing the same thing only to make their eyes "round" in order to be "ready" for London 2012. It's all in good natured fun.

[Flipside]

They're more a mix of the two I'd say. Some of those sounded fairly Cantonese (At least to my untrained ear). Ho for instance is a pretty common Cantonese name. I don't think it's a Korean one though. The other characters Li and Fuk are also fairly common in Chinese too.

I'm not so certain, though, that racism can be inferred from not realizing a list of names was racist. That's kind of pushing the line for me. Yes, had she thought for 20 seconds, she might have spotted it, but when you are reading from an autocue, 20 seconds is often not an option.

Who said I was on about the announcer though? I said right at the start that they were going after the wrong people.

Someone made up that list of names. They're the racist. Maybe not a bigot but making up that list of names is racist.

Try watching Chris Rock's bit on the difference between blacks and niggers. The whole thing is incredibly funny but also incredibly racist. You can tell cause you'd be very, very careful about who was around you if you repeated those jokes. Cause there is a good chance people would hear the words you're saying and decide you're a racist.

If you don't think those jokes are also racist, let me ask you something, would you repeat them within earshot of a crowd of Korean and Chinese people you didn't know?

To be honest, the comment that caused me concern was from Zacam :

So while the newscaster may not necessarily be a racist individual, racism is still present in the fact that she didn't engage her brain well enough to clue in to the fact that "wait a minute..." and as such, is passively racist by complicity.

I don't consider her even passively racist, her job involves reading out all sorts of 'weird' names from all over the world. It could almost be argued that failing to see the intent behind the joke (for want of a better word) makes her less racist because she wasn't even thinking along those lines regarding them.

Edit : I think the problem here is that the guns are being pointed at the messenger. That list of names didn't come from the News Station, the names they received were confirmed by a seperate authority. The News station simply said those names, even if they did smell a rat, they genuinely believed in their confirmation and managed to make the report without any attempt of making light of those names even if there were suspicions.

Thing is, if the situation had been reversed, and an Oriental person on the news had a name that was translatable to something humorous in English, and then people turned around and said 'That HAS to be a fake name, it's too ridiculous to be real', then THAT would be branded as racist as well..

[Luis Dias]

Yes, I also find Zacam's accusation of "inherently racist" even if one is unconscious or ignorant about it is, I think, rather over-the-top criteria for racism. People see racism everywhere. It's like a favorite hammer of a sorts, and then everything appears like a nail.

[FireSpawn]

I think this whole debacle is the by product of a general ignorance regarding Asian names, a particularly ballsy intern looking for a laugh who probably didn't think he'd be taken seriously, and the tasteless sod who put the names forward to begin with.

I'll admit that I laughed when I saw the clip because I thought it was simply hilarious that not only one bad pun got through, but four. One can be seen as a funny coincidence, two at a stretch. But with four at once, someone should have asked for a second confirmation from a different "Official"

[SypheDMar]

I think this whole debacle is the by product of a general ignorance regarding Asian names, a particularly ballsy intern looking for a laugh who probably didn't think he'd be taken seriously, and the tasteless sod who put the names forward to begin with.

And this is my point. The tasteless sod's joke is racist because it is tasteless and offensive.

I never blamed the anchorwoman for the record. It's not her fault that she read those names and weren't familiar with them. I don't expect everyone to know how to pronounce every culture's names.

[Flipside]

I think the context does have to be considered as well with these things, for example, Monty Python frequently relied on bastardizations of English or Latin names for comedic effect. I don't think things like 'Biggus Dickus', for example are created with intent to insult to Roman Empire (after all, what have they ever done for us?) just as a comedic tool. However, there's a time and a place and a way to do it, and picking on languages that are extinct is one such way

Edit : And to clarify, the News broadcast is very much the wrong time, place and arena for it. but I think the question of whether it is outright racist or merely ignorant, hurtful and inconsiderate is maybe more complex than simply Yes/No.

[karajorma]

Yes, I also find Zacam's accusation of "inherently racist" even if one is unconscious or ignorant about it is, I think, rather over-the-top criteria for racism. People see racism everywhere. It's like a favorite hammer of a sorts, and then everything appears like a nail.

I think you're failing to distinguish between an act that is racist, and a person who is a racist. If I copy and paste something from someone else into this post and don't notice that I've included the bit later on where the guy goes into a racist diatribe, then I've posted something racist, but that doesn't necessarily make me a racist.

The announcer and perhaps even the entire station are in that situation. I tend to agree with most people here that the mistake isn't the announcers fault. She's simply seeing the names on the autocue and reading them out. Even if part of her brain does start cluing her in that the list is suspect, what was she going to do? Stop reading the names out on live TV because she suspects she's being pranked? Pretty unprofessional to do that and even if she did stop, what if by some weird coincidence those names were real? Then she'd have an even bigger problem to face.

I do think someone at the station should have caught the issue, but anyone who knows how a newsroom works should see that it's possible that the names came in while the report was already on air and were quickly added to the report. There are many reasons why it's quite possible that they never had the time we have to notice something was horribly wrong with that list of names.

Returning to the list itself. Yeah, of course the list is racist. The person behind it might not be. He might just think it was funny and not realise that there are quite a few people who have seen this sort of joke too many times. That sort of thing happens all the time. A joke which works with a small number of people can be offensive if reported to a wider public. Politicians and other public figures fall foul of this sort of thing all the time.

What I'm surprised by is the number of people who are basically saying to anyone who is offended by it, "You shouldn't be offended by this slur against people of your ethnicity, it's just a funny joke. The fact that it assumes that Chinese and Koreans are the same, shouldn't be offensive to you. No one has said anything directly racist to you so therefore you should go get a sense of humour about being insulted."

Are Nikon cameras racist, then?

Google seems to think so.

[Phantom Hoover]

i think this entire conversation is mired in the ambiguity and cultural baggage of the word 'racism'

[haloboy100]

That's pretty much how every bloody argument around here is started.

[Flipside]

I suppose the thing is, on the Colbert sketch he comes up with more Korean names that are working on the very same trick, only executed with the 'right' sort of name-structure. He also projects it from a position of obvious satire, his show is unabashedly satirical in nature. Because of that, that kind of thing is tolerated more because it is being presented from a 'you were warned' standpoint.

I think confusing Chinese names with Korean names is ignorant, and I can even understand how it could be considered casual racism, but never leave too small a margin for just 'dumb'. I'd consider it more of a cultural faux-pas than an act of casual racism, it's not really assigning a stereotype based on an assumption, more a case of simply not knowing the difference between the two cultures names.

Edit : And I'll note, a Cultural Faux Pas is not anything less offensive and unpleasant than Racism is, I'm not trying to play down the act, I simply have concerns that, as far as the name thing was concerned, it seems missing the barb of intent, and assumption based more on simple lack of knowledge than anything I could define as hurtful. I suppose it could be argued that the ignorance is not a defence, or even that it was the tool with which the Racism was implemented, but I'm not sure it is feasible for every person to understand every structure of every naming system, which is what would be required in order to avoid it.

I do see Karas' concern, of some intern thinking to himself 'I need some Korean names' and then just grabbing 'Asian Sounding' words out of the air, I can see how that is belittling to bundle all Asian cultures up into one, when there are vast differences between them, but I suspect he was no more aware that he was making Chinese names than he was aware he was not making Korean ones.

[karajorma]

Yeah, I suppose that's a fair way of looking at it. Like I said, I tend to see a distinction between the list itself (obviously racist) and the person behind it who is just ignorant of the racist connotations of his list (and who probably would say he's not racist and use many of the same arguments people on this thread have used).

I should point out that I haven't seen Colbert's video cause I'm traveling and unable to view Youtube videos at the moment. I do think you can make racist jokes and not offend people of that race. It really does depend on the context. That's one reason why I mentioned Chris Rock's stand up. Since he's black he could get away with a lot of that stuff. A white comedian could get away with it if people knew he wasn't racist but without context it could easily be seen as very, very racist.

Which brings us back to the news report. You have a white newsreader, reading out a list of racist names on a news report about a plane crash where people died. Of course that's going to come off as racist.

Still, all said and done, at least the newsreader involved in this can remind herself that there's another newsreader who did a worse job with the same news story.