Author Topic: Forum game: Rules/Discussion  (Read 71958 times)

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Offline CommanderDJ

  • Software engineer
  • 210
    • Minecraft
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Sorry, I should have made it clear: I'm the 1st SF, not the 3rd. :P

I'm not the bugspray guy, but my character hates the aliens nonetheless. :D
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Derpy Veers... serves me right now not checking. Sorry!
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

ArmA 2&3 Mission Designer and player.


WoD - I like Crystal. <3

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Not much point asking the DD to go to Vega as it is weaker, it places all the DD fleets in the southern sector, which is not overly helpful in terms of balancing power between our sectors and against hostile fleets. That's why I think it should move North.

Resupply only happens in a friendly system, and unless we retreat. No resupplies happening in Draco this turn I'm afraid, and assuming we are attacked within the next 3 turns. Not happening at all.

So my current plans are:

Action 1: Use Special - Zeal
Action 2: ? (Not in friendly system so Resupply & Defend not options)

The CRF provides a high morale boost, and is beneficial to have two in the northern sector (I think), with two in the southern sector. I'm talking more overall placement rather than what is going to be practical, but if those fleets move north, LSF waits in Vega incase we get nuked by whatever is in Kardoen, you still have the 2nd SF and 2nd UGCR north as well.

Problem being you need reinforcements into Tauri, and movement wise, it is the furthest away from any fleets other than Aldebaren
But we have an odd number of fleets. Isn't it better the North has more power while the South has an extra fleet? I also think the North is more important due to the high value systems and closeness to Sol, but either way, the South is still getting an extra fleet.

I suppose Spoon can clarify it, but I'm under the impression that the 4th Cordi is defeated. Thus the system is friendly. It won't matter since the fleets are going to be staying there anyway.

The Southern fleets under my move order, you've got 6 fleets on the front line, and one fleet behind each front line system as backup.

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I'm going off the map, which still states the 4th Cordi is in the system as a hostile fleet. They are offering surrender, but are still a hostile fleet until the next turn. Which:

- 4th Cordi Surrender
- 4th Cordi Destroyed
- Reinforced & Retreat (less likely at this stage)

Regards to Fleets,

Simply due to time limitations, We can't reshuffle the entire rear line. I'd like to (by having another CRF and DD fleet north.) So the 3rd DD and 4th CRF are likely to split up moving towards Vega and Odin.

1st LSF, 2nd SF and 2nd UGCR Stay north, 1st LSF has the additional 4th Gen boost and so far, you do have 2 Zy Fleets to take care of.

Makes sense now, I forgot to double-check the Aldebaran fleets.

And out of curiosity, could it be possible that while we 'know' there are additional fleets in Kardoen, that the intel might be wrong. There are two 1st Fleets there at this time, while we can already account for what races they might be. Could it also be possible that it might actually turn out to be a 1st and 2nd or 3rd fleet instead?

Just thinking Intel might not be upto scratch.
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

ArmA 2&3 Mission Designer and player.


WoD - I like Crystal. <3

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I'm going off the map, which still states the 4th Cordi is in the system as a hostile fleet. They are offering surrender, but are still a hostile fleet until the next turn. Which:

- 4th Cordi Surrender
- 4th Cordi Destroyed
- Reinforced & Retreat (less likely at this stage)

Regards to Fleets,

Simply due to time limitations, We can't reshuffle the entire rear line. I'd like to (by having another CRF and DD fleet north.) So the 3rd DD and 4th CRF are likely to split up moving towards Vega and Odin.

1st LSF, 2nd SF and 2nd UGCR Stay north, 1st LSF has the additional 4th Gen boost and so far, you do have 2 Zy Fleets to take care of.

Makes sense now, I forgot to double-check the Aldebaran fleets.

And out of curiosity, could it be possible that while we 'know' there are additional fleets in Kardoen, that the intel might be wrong. There are two 1st Fleets there at this time, while we can already account for what races they might be. Could it also be possible that it might actually turn out to be a 1st and 2nd or 3rd fleet instead?

Just thinking Intel might not be upto scratch.
Another thing, if it required our first action to get rid of the 4th Cordi, surely the system would be regarded as friendly for the 2nd action. We need Spoon to help us out. But I would have thought we could take their surrender now, and the system would be friendly.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you wanting 8 fleets in the North? I could get behind that later, but not now with seemingly the Hertak down there.

There hasn't been anything wrong with our intel so far. Besides, the morale boost to one 1st ? fleet from Very low to Normal really makes me think that is the Hertak masters "motivating" the Fura'ngle. We still have nothing but a number.

 

Offline Lepanto

  • 210
  • Believes in Truth
    • Skype
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Here's my advice; take, leave, or constructively criticize it. I don't want to be annoying by trying to push my strategy on everyone, and I'll stop making suggestions if people get annoyed, but I think we might have an opportunity for a crushing counter-offensive in the south, and I'd like you to at least hear me out.

We're doing well in the south, but we've got 3 enemy fleets in Kardoen, which threaten to either attack our fleets in Hydra or Draco or reinforce Aldebaran. By metagaming process of elimination, as Lorric has concluded, 2 of them are the 1st Fura'ngle and Hertak fleets. Like it or not, we'll be dealing with them shortly, and I'd rather deal with them on our terms. As risky as this might sound, unless taking the Cordi surrender in Draco requires an action (which Spoon hasn't said it does, and maybe even if it does), I propose that the 3 fleets in Draco advance into Kardoen and attack the second 1st ? Fleet. All the Draco fleets are above 90%, and capable of launching an attack. This game's battle system rewards taking the initiative; if we attack the Kardoen fleets first and heavily damage one of them, even if the enemy retreats the damaged fleet and brings in another from the system behind Kardoen to counterattack, we'll at least have pushed the front lines back to Kardoen and have hopefully mangled their strongest fleet in the first volley. I think the second 1st ? Fleet in Kardoen might be the 1st Hertak Fleet, and we do NOT want to hand them the first attack; the 1st Zy Fleet mangled the 4th SF in Tauri by itself when it attacked first, and the 1st Hertak, backed up by the other two Kardoen fleets, could do worse damage to allied forces in either Hydra or Draco if the Draco fleets just hold in Draco and the enemy are allowed to attack unimpeded. If we (hopefully) hit the 1st Hertak first with 3 fleets, we'll at least do serious damage before they can get an attack in. Not to mention, the fleets holding in Draco would be effectively out of the action for a turn if the Hierarchy just ignores our forces in Draco and makes a push into Hydra. Considering all these factors, I believe that defending Draco is a bad idea, and we would be well-served to counterattack instead.

To supplement this push, I recommend moving the 1st LSF into Draco. They would be in position to relieve the fleets which would now be engaged in Kardoen. Even if taking the 4th Cordi's surrender does require an action, and therefore would prevent all of the Draco fleets from moving and attacking if one of them were to take their surrender, I think that if the 1st LSF could be brought into Draco while the current Draco fleets attacked into Kardoen, they could prevent the 4th Cordi from doing anything too dangerous.

I volunteer the 4th CRF to relieve the 2nd LSF in Hydra.

We should be able to hold both Tauri and Aldebaran, especially if the 3rd DD is deployed to reinforce the north.

Frankly, rather than try to keep the fleets on both fronts balanced, I think we should be going for a decisive push in the south and trying to secure Kardoen. With the powerful enemy fleets incoming, it won't be easy, but I don't see a better strategic option. If we can retake Kardoen and wipe/drive out all the southern fleets, we should be able to hold Kardoen against most any expected attack with 5-6 fleets, allowing us to then commit to the north. If we keep doing what we've been doing and just keep trying to hold the enemy, we'll probably lose a war of attrition to the Hierarchy, who probably have many more fleets than we do. Onward, to decisive victory! Who's with me?  :cool:

TL;DR: We should mass and attack to the south, unless we want to get overrun by the enemy fleets massing in Kardoen.
"We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug."
Finian O'Toole, The Irish Times, 5 May 1994

Blue Planet: The Battle Captains: Missions starring the Admirals of BP: WiH
Frontlines 2334+2335: T-V War campaign
GVB Ammit: Vasudan strike bomber
Player-Controlled Capship Modding Tutorial

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Onward, to decisive victory! Who's with me?  :cool:

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I think, that until we know if we need to use a turn to accept the Cordi's surrender or not, means we are stuck with many different options as for our next move.

If we do attack, we face heavy casualties in a retreat, with a minimal reline towards Vega. Otherwise, I am very happy to push forward and attack,

but we need to know about the Cordi Surrender first, and reinforcements for Vega/Draco second. :)
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

ArmA 2&3 Mission Designer and player.


WoD - I like Crystal. <3

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Lepanto, it is amusing that this mirrors the previous turn where I had to convince someone of the merit of a push. Now you convince me. I was all for pushing hard, but the two 1st ? fleets stopped me, and I was thinking to wait and observe a turn to learn what they were. But if we can cut Kardoen off, we can have fleets in Draco easily able to reinforce Hydra or Kardoen. That's a tactical advantage. But a disadvantage is we can't see enemy reinforcements. I hope Spoon could fix that for us with us entering battle on the edge of the map.

A potential problem will be we can't attack if the 4th Cordi take an action.

I had also considered the idea of attacking the Hertak, but was stopped by not knowing which one is which, but it is likely the bottom one is the Hertak and that should be the target, split their surely devastating first attack between three fleets and severely weaken them.

I'm nervous about the North but I believe it's worth the risk. I wonder if you should go North and send the 3rd DD South though? I'm not sure. Could you elaborate on the decision to send the 3rd DD North? Regardless of which fleet goes North, I think the North will hold until it arrives. But the 1st LSF with it’s 4th Gen fighters is very powerful. With it joining the Southern attack, perhaps you should go North. I’m not sure. The rest of your plan I’m fully in agreement with, but this I think merits some additional consideration.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 10:22:26 pm by Lorric »

 

Offline Jellyfish

  • 29
  • No relent
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I sure got whacked! And I can't leave, because it'd leave a 10 supply system to the enemy and an open flank to Aldebaran, not to mention the retreat would be disastrous, too.
Stay and be wiped out, leave and be wiped out.
"A weapon is only as powerful as its wielder. With this weapon, you'll be but an annoyance, which would greatly dishonor it. With this weapon, I can change history. With me, this weapon can shape the universe."

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I sure got whacked! And I can't leave, because it'd leave a 10 supply system to the enemy and an open flank to Aldebaran, not to mention the retreat would be disastrous, too.
Stay and be wiped out, leave and be wiped out.
Not if my plan is followed for niffiwan to take your place while you repair.

 

Offline Jellyfish

  • 29
  • No relent
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Can he jump from Aldebaran to Tauri directly?
"A weapon is only as powerful as its wielder. With this weapon, you'll be but an annoyance, which would greatly dishonor it. With this weapon, I can change history. With me, this weapon can shape the universe."

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
In principle I support taking Kardoen, I'm just nervous about how tough that (potentially) Hertak fleet is.  It'll be rather fun if its 200% strength or something.  One issue is that a fleet needs to secure Draco because the Hierachy secured it earlier (ignoring whatever the surrender requires) which means to get 3 fleets attacking Kardoen we'd need one of the 2nd DD / 3rd CRF / 2nd LSF to attack as well. Probably the 3rd CRF.  And then that leaves the battle in Hydra to be quite close, especially if the 2nd LSF retreat for resupply.  And that in turn suggests at least one of the 3rd DD / 4th CRF moving direct to Hydra.  Maybe both.

As for the North... one problem with the 2nd UGCR moving to Tauri to delay the 1st Zy is that it doesn't let the 4th SF retreat unopposed - the 1st Zy will get a free shot on them.

What do the Admirals think of this idea:
4th SF attacks 1st Zy then retreats (ouch)
1st SF AND 2nd CRF move to Tauri & attack 1st Zy (leaves 1st Zy @ approx 56%/59%?)
2nd UGCR move to Aldebaran & attack 2nd Cordi
1st UGCR attack 2nd Cordi & retreats (to resupply/renew mercs next turn)
1st LSF move to Aldebaran, ready to move to Tauri & attack 1st Zy the next turn

In particular, I'm interested to know what would happen in Tauri.  Would the entire 1st Zy counter attack fall on the 4th SF since they attacked in the 1st phase, leaving the 2nd phase attack from the 1st SF and 2nd CRF untouched in return?  That would tip the odds in favour of the 1st SF AND 2nd CRF in subsequent turns, at the obvious heavy cost to the 4th SF / 3 phases of resupply.  It could allow the destruction of the 1st Zy the following turn from 1st SF AND 2nd CRF + 2nd UGCR or 1st LSF.  Or if the 1st Zy attempt to retreat it either pulls other Hierachy fleets around to cover them & dilutes their attacks, or they get pounded in their retreat.  One downside is that we can't destroy the 2nd Cordi with this plan.

The alternative is to send only one of the 1st SF / 2nd CRF to Tauri and have them fight a delaying action.  We'd just need to be careful about Hierachy fleets in Aldebaran moving to Tauri to reinforce the 1st Zy.  This should still allow the destruction of the 2nd Cordi, even if the 1st UGCR does not attack them. 

Hmmm... assuming no one reinforces the 1st Zy the current combo of 2nd Zy & 3rd & 5th Cordi will pretty much wreck one of our fleets next turn in Aldebaran.  The 2nd SF will be resupplied next turn, but the 1st UGCR won't be (not fully). I feel like we need the 1st LSF at the north in order to stem the tide.

edit: in retrospect, I should really have gone to Librae after the 2nd CRF moved back to Aldebaran.  Oh well!!

edit2: forgot part of the travel rules - means max 2 southern fleets available to attack Kardoen...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 04:33:10 am by niffiwan »
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lepanto

  • 210
  • Believes in Truth
    • Skype
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Thanks for taking my plan seriously, everyone.

I'm nervous about the North but I believe it's worth the risk. I wonder if you should go North and send the 3rd DD South though? I'm not sure. Could you elaborate on the decision to send the 3rd DD North? Regardless of which fleet goes North, I think the North will hold until it arrives. But the 1st LSF with it’s 4th Gen fighters is very powerful. With it joining the Southern attack, perhaps you should go North. I’m not sure. The rest of your plan I’m fully in agreement with, but this I think merits some additional consideration.

I'm still more nervous about the Hertak+Fura'ngle+Nordera in the south than I am about the Aldebaran Meat Grinder, which seems to be stable as of present, so even on further reflection, I'd rather commit the stronger force to the south. Still, if you think I'd be better-used shoring up Aldebaran, or Enioch wants to go south, fine by me.

I understand if everyone's waiting for Spoon's call on the Cordi surrender, but if the 1st LSF were to move into Draco as I suggested, they could hold the 4th Cordi even if the 3 fleets in Draco didn't have the actions to attack and accept their surrender at the same time.

A bit of irony. You, despite playing a passionate and aggressive RP character, wanted to defend in the south. I, despite playing a calmer character, have been advocating risky strategic counter-offensives.

And thanks, Dynasty Warriors Guy!  :D

niffiwan, I'll get back to you tomorrow, when I'm thinking straight and not so tired.
"We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug."
Finian O'Toole, The Irish Times, 5 May 1994

Blue Planet: The Battle Captains: Missions starring the Admirals of BP: WiH
Frontlines 2334+2335: T-V War campaign
GVB Ammit: Vasudan strike bomber
Player-Controlled Capship Modding Tutorial

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Oh damn, you’re right, we need to secure Draco, we can’t move until it’s secured…

I don’t think we can attack the Hertak then. Maybe not attacking would be better, I don’t know. I’m too tired now to think about it, so I’ll let others think about that.

Same for your plan, I must sleep. But I’ll offer the damage calculations.

I think the damage would be split up between all fleets, as I attacked the 1st Cordi in the 2nd phase, yet I took damage.

Being unable to destroy the 2nd Cordi is a big flaw in this plan:

UGCR 1st Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 11+4=15 (13+2)
Capital attack strength: 8+6=14 (15)
Fighters at 67% Strength
Capital ships at 55% Strength

2nd UGCR Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 15+8=23 (13+2)
- Capital attack strength: 15+8=23 (15)
- Fighters at 100% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 100% Strength
- Morale: Normal

vs.

2nd Cordi Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 8+3=11 (20)
Capital attack strength: 5+4=9 (12)
Fighters at 40% Strength (23+15=38)
Capital ships at 43% Strength (23+14 = 37)

They’re going to be down to 2%/6%. I wonder if it will break their will to fight? They’re already down to low morale.

But crippling the 1st Zy is a big boon:

4th SF Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 11+5=16 (18+2)
Capital attack strength: 9+6=15 (18)
Fighters at 51% Strength
Capital ships at 51% Strength

SF 1st Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 17+8=25 (18+2)
Capital attack strength: 15+9=24 (18)
Fighters at 83% Strength
Capital ships at 86% Strength

CRF 2nd Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 16+8=24 (16+2+1)
Capital attack strength: 16+8=24 (17+1)
Fighters at 84% Strength
Capital ships at 91% Strength

vs.

1st Zy Fleet - Roughly 13/13 damage to each ally fleet.
Fighter attack strength: 27+13=40 (22+2)
Capital attack strength: 26+13=39 (21+2)
Fighters at 119% Strength (54% left)
Capital ships at 120% Strength (57% left)

I don’t like the potential that both these fleets could slip away from us and regroup, when we can destroy one for sure.

And won’t we be in a rather precarious situation without two fleets which under my plan would be resupplying being able to resupply?

I’ll look at it again tomorrow, but I feel my plan is better.

You vs Zy:

1st Zy Fleet
Fighter attack strength: 27+13=40 (22+2)
Capital attack strength: 26+13=39 (21+2)
Fighters at 119% Strength (96% left)
Capital ships at 120% Strength (97% left)

vs.

2nd UGCR Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 15+8=23 (13+2)
- Capital attack strength: 15+8=23 (15)
- Fighters at 100% Strength, 3rd Gen (60% left)
- Capital ships at 100% Strength (61% left)
- Morale: Normal
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 11:41:54 pm by Lorric »

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Can he jump from Aldebaran to Tauri directly?

Nope

As for the North... one problem with the 2nd UGCR moving to Tauri to delay the 1st Zy is that it doesn't let the 4th SF retreat unopposed - the 1st Zy will get a free shot on them.

So yeah, the 2nd UGCR can't cover the 4th SF retreat, only the 1st UGCR / 1st SF / 2nd CRF can do that.  And it's not a good idea for the 1st UGCR considering their damage, and the fact that their merc contract expires this turn & they need to be in friendly space to renew it.
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
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Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline CommanderDJ

  • Software engineer
  • 210
    • Minecraft
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
The 1st SF is happy to cover the 4th's retreat.

* CommanderDJ salutes.
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Huzzah :D

After a reread of the travel rule, I think a southern attack may still work. Assuming the 4th Cordi is no longer a "hostile fleet", we could ignore securing Draco & send the 1st DD / 1st CRF / 3rd SF into Kardoen.  The 2nd LSF retreats to Odin & resupplies (although it'd be cool to figure out some way they could secure Draco instead, I guess it depends on exactly when Draco flips from contested back to hostile).  1st LSF moves to Draco as reinforcements, 4th CRF to Hydra & 3rd DD to Virgo to help the north?

If we could take Kardoen it'd really make this a whole lot easier, Aldebaran & Kardoen only have Algol between them and it'd be much easier to send fleets to the front most in need of reinforcements.
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
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Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Should we use my plan in the North then?

Careful now, niffiwan, your next post is going to be your 1,000th post, you want to make it a good one, now, don't you...?  ;)

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Hmmm, so are you and me going to destroy the 2nd Cordi, niffiwan, while DJ covers the 4th SF? That would be a better version of my plan.

CRF 2nd Fleet (+ zeal)
Fighter attack strength: 17+9=26 (16+2+2)
Capital attack strength: 17+9=26 (17+2)
Fighters at 84% Strength
Capital ships at 91% Strength

2nd UGCR Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 15+8=23 (13+2)
Capital attack strength: 15+8=23 (15)
Fighters at 100% Strength, 3rd Gen
Capital ships at 100% Strength
Morale: Normal

vs

2nd Cordi Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 8+3=11 (20)
Capital attack strength: 5+4=9 (12)
Fighters at 40% Strength
Capital ships at 43% Strength (26+23=49 - destroyed)

EDIT: DJ shouldn't attack the Zy if we do this. Just stall them.