[Lepanto]

Yowch.

The North is as secure as it'll get. Some Northern fleets need to reinforce the south, which is in danger of collapse, with the DoomStack running amok. We need to consider our next move VERY carefully. The Hertak Flag Fleet is obviously our main target, but how do we go about killing it? Should we pounce it right now with everything in the area, doing some damage, but inevitably losing at least one fleet next turn? It looks like attrition is the only way we'll be able to take that monster down.

Spoon, nice to see you're back, and we're back in business! 

Maybe, if you wanted to keep fighter strength meaningful, you could let players give fighters different orders/stances or something like that. If you put fighters on aggressive stance, you'd take more fighter casualties, but do more damage. Basically, give players some more tactical options with fighters, which will change the combat dynamics, so fighters take damage at different rates than capships do.

Spoon, you have thrown enough fleets at us already.  At this rate, with your DoomStack on the loose, it's entirely possible that we'll still lose. As for Blitz, yeah, at this point, I'd suggest retooling it. Maybe, if you use Blitz, it counts as 2 move actions, so you can move in, hit the enemy, and pull out in the same turn.

 Are you willing to tell us if killing the Flag Fleet is a victory condition? Also, any news on promotions?

[Droid803]

It seems the Sol Force fleets have sort of gotten the short end of the special ability stick.

At least they have one!

[Lorric]

I need some time. Might not be able to contribute today. I've been unusually busy lately. That's why I haven't spoken about Enioch's RP post yet, I need time to do it properly.

[niffiwan]

yowsers, that flag fleet... with that kind of toughness I think we'll take losses when attacking it no matter what we do.

Maybe the 2nd CRF / 1st SF / 4th SF could head to Kardoen to cut the Hierachy supply lines and prevent them from resupplying easily?  With the fleets we can currently see, the 1st & 2nd UGCR should be able to hold the north by themselves.

Re the fighters, perhaps you could combine the two ideas mooted so far?  i.e. remove the fighters as a separate component, but also give them the options of stances which affect the base fleet strength, something along the lines of recon would seem very fitting as well, although I can't figure out what sort of bonus that could give at the moment (hmm... less damage dealt due to fighters carrying less ordnance, less damage taken due to better intel?)

For Blitz, maybe remove the requirement that you must move into a non-friendly system?

It seems the Sol Force fleets have sort of gotten the short end of the special ability stick.

At least they have one!

You've got Acting Smug, what are you complaining about?

Hmmm... what about an ability to go with that, activate "Acting Smug" when you've just destroyed a fleet, get a bonus +25% fleet strength for a turn?  (take care, I haven't thought that through very much...)

[Lorric]

Hell, I'm bloody nearly out of fleets to throw at you guys.

Kill them all. Ignore the Hertak Flagship fleet. Kill everything else. The Hertak Flagship fleet is nothing without any other fleets backing it up.

[Admiral MS]

Vice Admiral Georgiy Kuznetsov (Admiral MS), your fleet has been crushed under the Hertak tidal wave as you were resupplying.
Would you like to continue y/n?

Obviously I want to continue. I mean I got a clean 100% kill without any chances  - how can I leave that standing? 
And I think you forgot my still active barrage again - while it's not much I expect it to be applied in this case! Also I guess my resupplying was already done when I moved to Hydra, doesn't make a difference for the combat but makes my death less "crushed while resupplying" and more "fought to the bitter end with a full strength fleet".

So what do I do now while being out of the game during the most interesting part of it...?

Edit: Do we even have the ressources for all the fleet rebuilding?

[Enioch]

Kill them all. Ignore the Hertak Flagship fleet. Kill everything else. The Hertak Flagship fleet is nothing without any other fleets backing it up.

No, Lorric. Seriously? Just no.

At this point, the Flag Fleet does 167 Cap damage, more than enough to solo-kill any defender, with the exception of myself (at full capacity). If we slam it hard enough, we might get it down to a ~ 140 damage output  (which would allow a full strength mercenary fleet to survive an engagement)- but we need to drop it to 420% cap strength for that. And while we do that, the other fleets will hammer us.

If we ignore the Flag Fleet and focus on the escorts, we will need ca 1 turn per escort - maybe more. Meanwhile, the Flag Fleet will be killing one of our fleets every turn.

We will take losses here, gentlemen, make no mistake.

I recommend we pull two fleets from Aldebaran to Algol and smash the defenses in Kardoen. Let's leave one fleet upstairs, to provide rotation for the frontline and give us a three-fleet stack, if necessary.

X3NO and myself will hit the Zy in Vega. Let me see: I can output...uh...55 cap damage (with barrage) and he can output...19 cap damage, for a total of 74, so 2nd Zy is dead as a doornail. X3NO, you should then fall back and resupply, I will hold the line (for a turn at least). I recommend the 1st LSF join me as soon as possible. If we kill the incoming 3rd Zy, we will be in a position to flank a single 3-fleet stack (with the Flag fleet) with two three-fleet stacks. Game of numbers.

[Lorric]

Kill them all. Ignore the Hertak Flagship fleet. Kill everything else. The Hertak Flagship fleet is nothing without any other fleets backing it up.

No, Lorric. Seriously? Just no.

At this point, the Flag Fleet does 167 Cap damage, more than enough to solo-kill any defender, with the exception of myself (at full capacity). If we slam it hard enough, we might get it down to a ~ 140 damage output  (which would allow a full strength mercenary fleet to survive an engagement)- but we need to drop it to 420% cap strength for that. And while we do that, the other fleets will hammer us.

If we ignore the Flag Fleet and focus on the escorts, we will need ca 1 turn per escort - maybe more. Meanwhile, the Flag Fleet will be killing one of our fleets every turn.

We will take losses here, gentlemen, make no mistake.

I recommend we pull two fleets from Aldebaran to Algol and smash the defenses in Kardoen. Let's leave one fleet upstairs, to provide rotation for the frontline and give us a three-fleet stack, if necessary.

X3NO and myself will hit the Zy in Vega. Let me see: I can output...uh...55 cap damage (with barrage) and he can output...19 cap damage, for a total of 74, so 2nd Zy is dead as a doornail. X3NO, you should then fall back and resupply, I will hold the line (for a turn at least). I recommend the 1st LSF join me as soon as possible. If we kill the incoming 3rd Zy, we will be in a position to flank a single 3-fleet stack (with the Flag fleet) with two three-fleet stacks. Game of numbers.

?

No it doesn't.

Hertak Flag Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 25+18 = 43
Capital attack strength: 35+13+5 = 53
Fighters at 200% Strength
Capital ships at 500% Strength
Morale: Normal

It's not much stronger than a regular Hertak Fleet. But it will take 5X as much punishment to kill. I'd rather kill 5 other fleets than this thing, it would serve us a lot better, and we now know that there is a finite number of enemy fleets. That fleet can't kill anything without help.

[Enioch]

Uh...I feel sheepish.

I actually registered the provided numbers as base stats and multiplied with the 500% and 200% factors. Oooops.

Listen to Lorric, folks. Kill the escorts.

[Lorric]

Uh...I feel sheepish.

I actually registered the provided numbers as base stats and multiplied with the 500% and 200% factors. Oooops.

Listen to Lorric, folks. Kill the escorts.

It's alright, I forgive you.

This reminds me, I haven't looked at your new fleet yet...

3rd DD Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 40 (18+5+1)
Capital attack strength: 31 (17+1)
Fighters at 190% Strength, 4th Gen
Capital ships at 176% Strength
Morale: High
Barrage on Cooldown, Available again on turn 10
Barrage prepared
Inspirational Leader
Master of Logistics

Wow...

[Enioch]

*Snicker * Snort*

[Jellyfish]

I see a very juicy Algol in range, and no hostile fleets defending it. We can jump there, secure it, then jump to Kardoen and start kicking ass and taking names.

[Veers]

I still reckon that if they hit Hydra, it will put the pressure onto us to abandon Draco. Which helps break the stalemate that we've held them up with here in the Southern Sector. As it becomes a lot harder for us to reinforce that position through Vega (assuming Hydra is contested), and if Hydra does become contested, then Draco has to flee through 2 systems to get to a friendly location.

However, it's just speculation I'm going to help kill the 3rd Nordera first.

Hmmm.... I was right. I really thought that it would happen, but had no idea we'd lose a Fleet over it.. damn

Lets see where this puts us now though

Vega will have the 2nd and 3rd Zy, Draco only the 4th Nord, but can be reinforced by the 2nd Fura'ngle and 3rd Hertak from Kardoen, or by the Stack of Doom. However I would consider them being more keen on moving forwards towards Tamy and really put some pressure on us by mostly removing the Southern Front from our control.

So I'm thinking more, partially in-line with the previous "Stay out of the Stack of Doom's attack range" plan. And propose the following:

- Abandon Draco - Retreat to Vega to battle Zy. 2nd SF to Aquarius
- Abandon Hydra and Odin - Retreat to Tamy for counter attack with 3rd DD
- Northern Fleets to Co-ordinate on eliminating fleets in their sector, while capturing Algol and adjusting pressure on Hertak supply lines from Karoden

Odin and Draco(temporarily) would become buffer systems against the Stack of Doom (but if the Flag Fleet stays behind until the system is secured, could be a problem)

We can prepare a counter attack from Tamy, and rotate fleets through Vega. However the retreat from Draco means we open the Zy up to retreating. So we must co-ordinate a killing blow on at least one fleet in this case.

Algol, primarily out of the way, puts us into striking range of the Hertak rear lines. And gives us an additional +3 to replace the loss of Hydra's income.

But mostly, this idea (assuming the Hertak play along of course) moves our fleets away from the Hertak Flag and opens opportunities for us to eliminate supporting fleets. Before attempting to engage the Flag directly. (possibly somewhere between 1 to 4 approx hostile fleet destroyed within next 2 turns) if we can hit them correctly.

(Yes, I need to do the math though, but it gives us plenty of targets to hit).

EDIT:

- Draco Fleets hold and attempt a push to Kardoen, with Northern Fleets capturing Algol to create an escape route.

That seriously reduces the Southern Fleets effectiveness to rotate and reinforce however.

So many options

[Enioch]

You mean the 4th Nord?

I mostly agree. However, I really really really want to kill the incoming Zy as quickly as possible, given that they can do nasty thingses like jump without Starlances (think what would happen if we allowed them to survive and jump forward to say, Tamy) and Supernova stars (imagine Vega gone). Like I said before, if the 2nd SF supports me in an attack and then retreats to Aqua to resupply, we can destroy the 2nd Zy now. Then, next turn, I will (hopefully) be able to receive the attack of the 3rd Zy and knock them around a bit. They will have to attack me, because I will be the only defending fleet. Then, on my turn, I hit them back (maybe helped by the Draco fleets, or the 1st LSF?) and retreat to Aqua for teh healz. If we play this right, we can kill both Zy fleets in the next two turns, just after they come out in realspace.

Now, I admit I have tunnel vision and I have no idea how things will work out in the southern end of things but I assume that, with two/three fleets coming down to reinforce via Algol and with the three defenders in Draco, we can make this work - especially if we hit the escorts in concentrated attacks. I am looking at you, 2nd Hertak. Can we output 69 damage in one round? Losing the 2nd Hertak will hurt them a lot.

On the other hand, it's still a Stack of Doom. Flag Hertak + 1st Fura = 86 Damage. Ouch. (Numbers unchecked, Lorric confirm, please).

EDIT: Plus, they can always pull the 2nd Fura or the 3rd Hertak from Kardoen. It would be strategically stupid, considering they'd leave Kardoen empty, but they'd get overwhelming tactical strength back for a turn or so.

[Spoon]

Vice Admiral Georgiy Kuznetsov (Admiral MS), your fleet has been crushed under the Hertak tidal wave as you were resupplying.
Would you like to continue y/n?

Obviously I want to continue. I mean I got a clean 100% kill without any chances  - how can I leave that standing? 
And I think you forgot my still active barrage again - while it's not much I expect it to be applied in this case! Also I guess my resupplying was already done when I moved to Hydra, doesn't make a difference for the combat but makes my death less "crushed while resupplying" and more "fought to the bitter end with a full strength fleet".

So what do I do now while being out of the game during the most interesting part of it...?

Edit: Do we even have the ressources for all the fleet rebuilding?

Gah, its so easy to have things like barrage slip by. I'll go correct that.
There's still some resources left to rebuild your fleet, but after that the resource pool is starting to look kind of... meager.

Are you willing to tell us if killing the Flag Fleet is a victory condition? Also, any news on promotions?

Flag fleet is a victory condition, aye.
News on promotions after next turn.

[Flak]

The Hertak Flag itself isn't that major threat. Sure it is 25/35, but it is 200%/500% so it take more hits to bring down their power. Hurting the attendant fleets actually nerf their attack power faster. I think we should start guerilla warfare on the extra fleets following the doomstack and maybe take out the weakened fleets quickly. We should take out 2nd Hertak as soon as we got the chance. 2nd SF and 3rd DD is just enough to kill off 2nd Zy I think.

[Enioch]

They are. And the 3rd DD can probably kill the 3rd Zy as well.

[Lorric]

Enioch, perhaps in a few hours I should be able to finish my plan, but I can tell you that yes, we can kill the 2nd Zy and 2nd Hertak on this turn, and the 5th Cordi, and that is what I would like to do.

[Lorric]

Hello everyone. So it all begins again soon. This is what I think we should do, although there is a part of this plan at the end that I am not sure about but am leaning one way.

It is time to wipe out our enemies. We can wreak some real havoc this turn and kill three enemy fleets. I’ll start with the top. The two UGCR fleets alone can kill the 5th Cordi, which I’ll show below, but I want to do more than that:

1st UGCR Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 20+9=29 (13+2+1)
- Capital attack strength: 17+10=27 (15+1)
- Fighters at 131% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 106% Strength
- Morale: High
- Mercs on Cooldown, Available again on turn 10

2nd UGCR Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 18+8=26 (13+2+1)
- Capital attack strength: 15+9=24 (15+1)
- Fighters at 116% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 92% Strength
- Morale: High
- Mercs on Cooldown, Available again on turn 10

5th Cordi Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 14+3=17 (20)
Capital attack strength: 6+7=13 (12)
Fighters at 48% Strength
Capital ships at 51% Strength
Morale: Normal

51 capital ship damage exactly. You’d receive a paltry 9/7 damage each in return.

I would like to have the 1st SF enter Crux and attack the 5th Cordi as well, to spread the damage out, so that it would be just 6/4 for each fleet, and because the 1st SF is the only one on full strength. My fleet and Jellyfish’s 4th SF would remain behind, I would Resupply and use Zeal, and Jellyfish would Resupply and Defend. I’m thinking to future turns. Turn 9 will come next. I don’t think anyone would die in Crux, everyone would have high HP, and two new enemy fleets would have to come to put someone in danger. If the situation is favourable, we can think about a push, if not, a retreat. The main issue is the mercs run out on turn 10, so we can’t afford to take Algol or pull anyone else off the front, because on Turn 10, the UGCR fleets will be all weak and vulnerable until they get Resupplied and merc’d back up, so on Turn 9, I would have them pull out of Crux to do that, and the 1st SF would be there to cover them. Which would mean the other three fleets would need to be there to pick up the slack while they do that. If we were to push, me and Jellyfish would join DJ in Crux, and the UGCR fleets would Resupply in Aldebaran. If we needed to defend Aldebaran, the 1st SF would join us there and the UGCR fleets would pull back to Virgo and regroup there.

The 1st LSF though I would have travel to Vega to help in the South.

Now onto the bottom.

On the 2nd Zy, a joint attack with the 2nd SF will just tip them over the edge:

2nd SF Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 14+6=20 (18+2)
- Capital attack strength: 12+7=19 (18)
- Fighters at 67% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 66% Strength
- Morale: Normal

3rd DD Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 40+16=56 (18+5+1)
- Capital attack strength: 31+20+4=55 (17+1)
- Fighters at 190% Strength, 4th Gen
- Capital ships at 176% Strength
- Morale: High
- Barrage on Cooldown, Available again on turn 10
- Barrage prepared.
- Inspirational Leader
- Master of Logistics

2nd Zy Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 16+8=24 (21+1)
Capital attack strength: 15+8=23 (20+1)
Fighters at 71% Strength
Capital ships at 72% Strength
Morale: High

74 Capship damage. Don’t let Spoon forget to apply that barrage!

12/12 received in return.

Worst counterattack:

2nd SF:
55/54

Vs.

3rd Zy Fleet
Fighter attack strength: 22+11=33 (21+1)
Capital attack strength: 21+11=32 (20+1)
Morale: High

4th Nordera Fleet
Fighter attack strength: 12+5=17 (10+2)
Capital attack strength: 10+6=16 (8+2)
Morale: Very High

Total = 50/48. The 2nd SF will survive. So I imagine either way the 2nd SF will want to pull back whether it gets attacked after this or not. But the 1st LSF will be there to help the mighty 3rd DD dispose of the 3rd Zy.

We can kill the 2nd Hertak with the following combination:

3rd SF Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 12+5=17 (18+2-1)
- Capital attack strength: 9+6=15 (18-1)
- Fighters at 62% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 55% Strength
- Morale: Low

Cyrvan Star Armada: 1/1
1st CSA Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 21+9=30 (23)
- Capital attack strength: 18+11=29 (20)
- Fighters at 90% Strength
- Capital ships at 90% Strength
- Morale: Normal

1st CRF Fleet:
- Fighter attack strength: 21+10=31 (16+2+3)
- Capital attack strength: 20+11=31 (17+3)
- Fighters at 97% Strength, 3rd Gen
- Capital ships at 97% Strength
- Morale: Zealous

2nd Hertak Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 14 (22)
Capital attack strength: 21 (30)
Fighters at 65% Strength
Capital ships at 69% Strength
Morale: Normal

75 damage. They’re gone. Now I’ve shown this as it’s the strongest attack, but any combination of the 3rd SF plus two fleets from Draco will kill the 2nd Hertak. 71 is the lowes the damage can be, it’s still enough. So you’re free to debate who stays behind. However, whoever stays behind will likely be on the receiving end of a triple attack by the 4th Nordera, 2nd Fura’ngle and 3rd Hertak, which are all at full strength. We’ll get to that at the end of this message.

The 3rd SF will probably perish, but I think it will be worth the sacrifice, and if we don’t do it, someone is sure to die anyway. So, my dear mobcdmoc3, do you think this is a good day to die? There is simply no other way to kill the 2nd Hertak on this turn. If we try to pull you out you’ll be obliterated with the retreat damage (59, you only have 55). If we cover your retreat, we can’t kill the 2nd Hertak Fleet, and it will pull back and resupply and we’ll have two Hertak fleets and the Hertak Flagship fleet running around.

This leaves 2nd LSF, which I think should Resupply and ready Combined Arms. It will be ready to enter Hydra then at almost full strength next turn.

We may lose one or even two fleets in the counterattack. But I don’t think there’s any way to prevent that happening whatever we do.

Back to the fleet that gets left behind in Draco. If it stays, it will surely take that triple attack. It would deal 86 capship damage, so it wouldn’t be a killing blow, but someone would need to cover them next turn. The other option would be to pull that fleet right out to Aquarius. It would only take minor retreat damage off the Nordera. But the Nordera would take Draco, and I’m sure the Hierarchy would try to split us in half, and it’s really bad if they split us in half because we can’t concentrate our forces anymore. I put the idea out there as an alternative, but I am leaning towards someone taking that hit in Draco. But I am not sure. So I’ll leave you think about that, and what I have said as a whole.

Oh, has anyone given any thought to talking to the Hierarchy?

[Jellyfish]

My fleet and Jellyfish’s 4th SF would remain behind, I would Resupply and use Zeal, and Jellyfish would Resupply and Defend.

We could do that in Algol. We would be in range to shock jump Kardoen and hit the 3rd Hertak. If we can destroy them, that will hopefully force the 2nd Fur'angle to surrender, and we'd survive the engagement even if both fleets focus on either of us.

Oh, has anyone given any thought to talking to the Hierarchy?

It would be a good idea, but not before isolating, surrounding and hitting the Flag Fleet a few times.