Author Topic: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?  (Read 8389 times)

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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
I had my first sexual experience when I was six, with an eight year old.
How is that even possible, neither of you should have even started puberty.

So what, prepubescent kids are not asexual. They only cannot ejaculate/get pregnant. Many kids "play doctor" and sometimes it goes from that to full blown sex and stuff. And I doubt it is likely to be harmful if it is consentual.
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Offline The E

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
Can we not continue on this tangent, please?
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I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
I had my first sexual experience when I was six, with an eight year old.
How is that even possible, neither of you should have even started puberty.

So what, prepubescent kids are not asexual. They only cannot ejaculate/get pregnant. Many kids "play doctor" and sometimes it goes from that to full blown sex and stuff. And I doubt it is likely to be harmful if it is consentual.

That's like "Whaaaaat...  :confused:" to me. I was, I had no sexual attraction to girls whatsoever, in fact I was repulsed by kissing and stuff right up until I hit puberty at around twelve and a half.

The E, I can appreciate your concerns, but really, this is like blowing my mind here.

 

Offline BloodEagle

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
Whelp, there goes my grand ambition of staying off of a watch list for two consecutive weeks.  :nono:

 

Offline Flak

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
What's so surprising? Many people actually start doing those 'sexual' things, when they were still children, much younger than you think, oh and alone of course. I myself discovered that experience through some 'body experiment', long before I was ever attracted to girls at all. At least I was glad that I never had the need for porn because of it. Oh what am I saying, nevermind.

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
What's so surprising?

It's surprising because of what happened to me, and that I've never heard of such a thing. I've always thought people to be completely innocent until puberty begins because I was.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
What's so surprising?

It's surprising because of what happened to me, and that I've never heard of such a thing. I've always thought people to be completely innocent until puberty begins because I was.

Most children begin to "discover" their bodies as early as age 1.  Curiosity about their physical traits and the opposite sex usually begins at 2-4, and young children will often play or experiment with their bodies (and those of their friends) at a young age.  It's perfectly normal and is more common than the opposite.  Western society in general is quite prudish about sexuality in children, but its only in the past couple hundred years that sex and sexuality have been separated from children in family life; if we could go back and talk to any child around age 4 or 5 in the 1600s, you'd find they know a great deal more about anatomy, sex, and childbearing than most teenagers today.

True sexual attraction and sex drive don't typically show up until puberty; however, people who claim children are inherently sexual beings (e.g. pedophiles) are off their rockers.

Also, there is virtually no evidence that exposure to pornography causes harm, even among children, though certainly I have no doubt that certain kinds of pornography would be confusing or disturbing to children (and certainly once my kids get old enough to use the computer I'm going to be hunting for ways to lock them out of the darker corners of the Internet in general, restrictions which I'll relax as they get into their teens).
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
What's so surprising?

It's surprising because of what happened to me, and that I've never heard of such a thing. I've always thought people to be completely innocent until puberty begins because I was.

Most children begin to "discover" their bodies as early as age 1.  Curiosity about their physical traits and the opposite sex usually begins at 2-4, and young children will often play or experiment with their bodies (and those of their friends) at a young age.  It's perfectly normal and is more common than the opposite.  Western society in general is quite prudish about sexuality in children, but its only in the past couple hundred years that sex and sexuality have been separated from children in family life; if we could go back and talk to any child around age 4 or 5 in the 1600s, you'd find they know a great deal more about anatomy, sex, and childbearing than most teenagers today.

True sexual attraction and sex drive don't typically show up until puberty; however, people who claim children are inherently sexual beings (e.g. pedophiles) are off their rockers.

Also, there is virtually no evidence that exposure to pornography causes harm, even among children, though certainly I have no doubt that certain kinds of pornography would be confusing or disturbing to children (and certainly once my kids get old enough to use the computer I'm going to be hunting for ways to lock them out of the darker corners of the Internet in general, restrictions which I'll relax as they get into their teens).

Interesting. Is it more of an "innocent" thing then? They don't feel aroused or anything? Just simple curiosity?

I've always believed in early sex education. Even more so now.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
The idea that we should ban porn (or implement a next-to-impossible "filter" of porn) because parents can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes explaining to their kids what they should nevertheless explain anyways is awesomely stupid.

That is all.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
Yeah, sex education needs to be started early. That the children are somehow harmed by this knowledge is a superstition, and a dangerous one at that. In fact, it's the lack of sexual knowledge that does harm. Sex is an entirely natural act, and there's nothing "immoral" or "wrong" about human sexual organs, nor is there any "higher" reason to hide them (of course, sometimes it's a good idea to do so for hygiene and comfort, but that's it). To a properly educated child, porn isn't a threat and probably wouldn't even be interesting.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
You know it's ****ing interesting that porn gets so much damned coverage in this "let's protect the kids from" bull**** shenanigans, but no words for the extreme violence even in kids' channels and cartoons. Games, etc. Wow, killing people all fine, but let's protect children from the traumatic event of sex.

I don't doubt it, it's a traumatic thing, but the obsession of our puritan culture over this is amazing.

 

Offline BloodEagle

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
You know what I think is more damaging? The anthropomorphizing of animals done by Disney, Warner Bros., et al.

We should ban the crap out of Animaniacs.

 

Offline FlamingCobra

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
-snip-
(and certainly once my kids get old enough to use the computer I'm going to be hunting for ways to lock them out of the darker corners of the Internet in general, restrictions which I'll relax as they get into their teens).
You mean 4chan and Reddit?

 

Offline Drogoth

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
oh FFS.  i really can't believe some of you guys.  ALL this is doing is presenting a damn OPTION to people to use isp-provided porn flitering.

No, it sets up a surveillance and tracking infrastructure that can be expanded at will without warning. I spend most of my spare time working for a political party, and one that is behind the curve on data campaigning.

errr what???? as far as I am aware we are talking about some filters which are voluntarily enforced by the end user.

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The amount of data that is collated, quantified, and then used to define everything about you, from your liklihood to vote, to who you'll vote for, to what type of organic food policy will buy your vote is used. And my party is behind the curve on this stuff. Corporations and more informed political movements have been on this for a long time, and this kind of data is bought and sold with very high speed.

Don't get me wrong. I tell most of the anonymous folks and other conspiracy theorists to take their tin foil hats off and go pound sand on a semi-regular basis, but I also know exactly what this kind of data is used for and how readily available that data is.

This is like an automatic opt out to buy alcohol. No restriction to opt in, except now your name is on a list somewhere saying that you opted in. One more data point to evaluate your attitudes. Where will you vacation? What will you buy? How best to market to you? Etc etc.

The ISP's themselves will almost certainly use this list to tailor service to groups of people, and I find it highly unlikely that won't metastasize quickly.

ok this is reading like a conspiracy theory

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That's even before you get into the nuts and bolts of implementation.

What is porn? Who set's that bar? Is it just sites who state they are for porn? Is it sites where that content can be downloaded? What about ones that provide instructions to acquire?

I have found the filters operated by Talk Talk for a while now to be about right so far

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In this case they have dressed it up as child protection, but again, even with admirable goals, this is the role for the parent, not the state.

errr true but parents but as a parent to a 13 year old with a mobile phone, xbox 360 and access to a PC i can tell you it is a tall order and often you end up being reactionary rather than proactive due to the child's attempts to get around what ever rules you have in place so I welcome a tool like this.

Point 1: You're setting up a political precedent for blacklisting of sections of the internet that can only be solved on an opt in basis. The tools and the precedent have been approved by government. How long before some bill blocks some other piece of content unless you opt in as well? Precedent can be just as dangerous as action.

Point 2: I know it reads like a conspiracy theory, but it's not, and I promise you that; because where I live for example, there are literally no laws governing the use of personal data by political parties. In fact they are exempt from some laws on the matter that regulate corporations.  Do a quick google of what the Conservative Party of Canada uses as a database (it's called CIMS), and you'll find some reports of the data that they collect and guard. My own party (The Liberal Party of Canada) uses the same software as the Obama campaign, just reskinned and rechristened as 'Liberalist'.

To give you an idea, when I walk up to a door to canvass, the tablet in my hand will tell me the following information:
-The names and ages of each person in that home
-Their phone numbers
-Whether or not they have voted in any given previous election
-Their likelihood to vote Liberal. <---- This is calculated as a percentage based on any number of data points we can acquire about them. This is called micro targeting, and is highly effective at predicting voting behavior
-Any and all key interest points that we have gathered on these individuals. Survey response, what links they've clicked. As such, going up to any given door a well organized political party is likely to know that this particular voter will respond well to healthcare and education campaigning, but doesn't care as much about say, law and order related campaign points.

Now I know this is getting kind of divergent but everything i have mentioned is an end product that the average street volunteer who just walks into our office to help out will see. These data points (particularly the percentage of liklihood to vote for us) are calculated based on every scrap of data that can be acquired about the person,, all of which is collected and quantified in our database. An opt-in list for viewing content would most certainly be used for that purpose. Also, as I said. My party i behind the curve on this material. Thinking that other political parties and private companies don't preform this level of data-mining for marketing purposes is naive at best and ludicrous at worst.

Point 3:

Handing your child a hunting rifle does not void you of the responsibility to make sure they use it safely and for its intended purpose. Neither does giving a child a mobile phone, xbox, PC, or any other device void you of the responsibility to make sure they use it safely.

If they are impossible to police, don't give them those items. My parents certainly never had any issues policing the use of the many PC's and laptops in our household, nor my phone, gaming consoles, television use, etc.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 01:42:55 pm by Drogoth »
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Offline headdie

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
The idea that we should ban porn (or implement a next-to-impossible "filter" of porn) because parents can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes explaining to their kids what they should nevertheless explain anyways is awesomely stupid.

That is all.

come back when you are a parent please, seriously any world where kids listen to their parent just because they say somthing is not the real world, between hormones, general curiosity and peer pressure means it dosnt happen.  having installed monitoring software on my stepson's PC so I could see his activity from my PC, explicitly warning him that it was on there and catching him out with it didnt stop him looking for more on numerous occasions.  not to mention the times we have caught him out on his phone.



Point 1: You're setting up a political precedent for blacklisting of sections of the internet that can only be solved on an opt in basis. The tools and the precedent have been approved by government. How long before some bill blocks some other piece of content unless you opt in as well? Precedent can be just as dangerous as action.

you are aware the UK already has filtering in place for pedophilia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom

Quote
Point 2: I know it reads like a conspiracy theory, but it's not, and I promise you that; because where I live for example, there are literally no laws governing the use of personal data by political parties. In fact they are exempt from some laws on the matter that regulate corporations.  Do a quick google of what the Conservative Party of Canada uses as a database (it's called CIMS), and you'll find some reports of the data that they collect and guard. My own party (The Liberal Party of Canada) uses the same software as the Obama campaign, just reskinned and rechristened as 'Liberalist'.

To give you an idea, when I walk up to a door to canvass, the tablet in my hand will tell me the following information:
-The names and ages of each person in that home
-Their phone numbers
-Whether or not they have voted in any given previous election
-Their likelihood to vote Liberal. <---- This is calculated as a percentage based on any number of data points we can acquire about them. This is called micro targeting, and is highly effective at predicting voting behavior
-Any and all key interest points that we have gathered on these individuals. Survey response, what links they've clicked. As such, going up to any given door a well organized political party is likely to know that this particular voter will respond well to healthcare and education campaigning, but doesn't care as much about say, law and order related campaign points.

Now I know this is getting kind of divergent but everything i have mentioned is an end product that the average street volunteer who just walks into our office to help out will see. These data points (particularly the percentage of liklihood to vote for us) are calculated based on every scrap of data that can be acquired about the person,, all of which is collected and quantified in our database. An opt-in list for viewing content would most certainly be used for that purpose. Also, as I said. My party i behind the curve on this material. Thinking that other political parties and private companies don't preform this level of data-mining for marketing purposes is naive at best and ludicrous at worst.

fair enough but then the electoral roll is lawfully sold to companies by most local authorities in the UK so a lot of that is already in private hands, though again there is an opt out on this.


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Point 3:

Handing your child a hunting rifle does not void you of the responsibility to make sure they use it safely and for its intended purpose. Neither does giving a child a mobile phone, xbox, PC, or any other device void you of the responsibility to make sure they use it safely.

If they are impossible to police, don't give them those items. My parents certainly never had any issues policing the use of the many PC's and laptops in our household, nor my phone, gaming consoles, television use, etc.

see my comments to Luis Dias, even the best behaved kids will could easily look at some point, I was also successful in sneeking underaged looks at porn and my dad was no slouch when it came to computers. 

any parent who thinks they have that level of control is unduly confident because kids and teenagers are not programmable robots, they have minds of their own with an abundance of curiosity and some will look.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
The idea that we should ban porn (or implement a next-to-impossible "filter" of porn) because parents can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes explaining to their kids what they should nevertheless explain anyways is awesomely stupid.

That is all.

come back when you are a parent please


I have three kids of my own, so according to you I can just declare "victory" in this discussion right? Ok then.

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I was also successful in sneeking underaged looks at porn and my dad was no slouch when it came to computers.
any parent who thinks they have that level of control is unduly confident because kids and teenagers are not programmable robots, they have minds of their own with an abundance of curiosity and some will look.

So what the hell is the point of even trying to make this stoopid filter anyway? To create an adventure for the kids trying to rebel against the filters? These guys are clueless.

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
The idea that we should ban porn (or implement a next-to-impossible "filter" of porn) because parents can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes explaining to their kids what they should nevertheless explain anyways is awesomely stupid.

That is all.

come back when you are a parent please


I have three kids of my own, so according to you I can just declare "victory" in this discussion right? Ok then.

congratulations then if you have reached a stage where you can completely trust your kids.

Quote
Quote
I was also successful in sneeking underaged looks at porn and my dad was no slouch when it came to computers.
any parent who thinks they have that level of control is unduly confident because kids and teenagers are not programmable robots, they have minds of their own with an abundance of curiosity and some will look.

So what the hell is the point of even trying to make this stoopid filter anyway? To create an adventure for the kids trying to rebel against the filters? These guys are clueless.

some will always find a way that is true but having this in place is one more tool I have at my disposal
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
Most companies already had an opt-in system that blocked these sites, the main change is that now it is opt-out. Protection for parents was only ever a phone call from them to the ISP away, but now everyone else is expected to do that job for them.

Not Impressed.

  

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
Why must I "completely trust" my kids in a discussion about filters of pornography? I trust that they will discover it. I trust that they will see it when I am not around them. I do try to educate them the best I can in order to make the porn discussion somewhat irrelevant and generally uninteresting. To make it a taboo is the worst kind of thing to ever do with a kid (it will only ensure their rebellion, etc), so I won't even try.

To be a parent is to learn a valuable lesson: that you just cannot control everything about them - they have a life of their own and they will have to learn to cope with everything about life, including porn, eventually by themselves. The best I can do is to teach them what is important and what is not important about sex and those general matters.

This control freak ideology really gets up my nerves, and when professed by governments, I really get sick on my stomach on the amount of deranged puritanism and outright fascistic mindset.

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Britain plans to blacklist online pornography?
put it like this, I fully agree with the minimum age limit on printed pornography and I see no distinction between that and internet filters for porn
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