[The E]

He's right though. This entire thread has devolved into a dialogue between two people, and this is not interesting to anyone else in the slightest.

[Lorric]

He's right though. This entire thread has devolved into a dialogue between two people, and this is not interesting to anyone else in the slightest.

Would you like me to pm you my next response?

[The E]

No. If you send me a PM and you aren't either a member of one of the teams I am on, or a complete noobie in need of advice and do not know any better, I will ignore it most of the time.

The problem isn't you wanting to know more. The problem is you selectively ignoring people and hijacking threads, and generally requiring a LOT of explanation. Seriously, people like NGTM1R and Battuta and MP-Ryan are generally willing to help you get a better understanding, but they generally expect you to do some work too. As for me, my patience and willingness to reiterate things I said in earlier posts has its limits too.

[Luis Dias]

Education isn't free, and no one should expect of internet strangers to willfully and freely give you a course on life, universe and everything. I think we all will gladly give pointers to what one thinks is the correct way of thinking and the most reasonable kind of sources, ideas and facts, etc., but having to go through the entire process of getting your brain to understand fully what one reasons should not be expected of anyone.

[Lorric]

No. If you send me a PM and you aren't either a member of one of the teams I am on, or a complete noobie in need of advice and do not know any better, I will ignore it most of the time.

The problem isn't you wanting to know more. The problem is you selectively ignoring people and hijacking threads, and generally requiring a LOT of explanation. Seriously, people like NGTM1R and Battuta and MP-Ryan are generally willing to help you get a better understanding, but they generally expect you to do some work too. As for me, my patience and willingness to reiterate things I said in earlier posts has its limits too.

So, post it here, or are we done? I don't want to be done. I really think we're getting somewhere. Either way, thanks for all your help, it's been nice.

This was a first for selectively ignoring. This shouldn't be an issue, HLP has an ignore function. I don't hijack on purpose. If it happens, it just happens. Work, I do work, I try my hardest and I keep going. If it's not enough, there's nothing I can do. I don't stop trying.

People complaining, imagine two people climbing a mountain, one person gets to the top quickly and the other isn't even halfway up the climb and the person at the top starts laughing at them and telling them to just give up. What would you think of that person? What would you think of the other climber if they did give up?

Education isn't free, and no one should expect of internet strangers to willfully and freely give you a course on life, universe and everything. I think we all will gladly give pointers to what one thinks is the correct way of thinking and the most reasonable kind of sources, ideas and facts, etc., but having to go through the entire process of getting your brain to understand fully what one reasons should not be expected of anyone.

I expect no such thing. MP-Ryan has changed me for the better on more than one occasion and I am very grateful for it, as I am grateful for The E's help now.

[Luis Dias]

Yeah, but in that scenario of the mountain, etc., you should never ask for people to pull you up. You can ask them how did they get up and how can you get up there. People will then tell you where you can get your own material, etc.,etc., and then you do the required work.

Yeah, work is hard. That's how people do it. IOW, sometimes it is far more important to learn how to fish than to have fish everyday handed directly in your plate.

[Phantom Hoover]

I think if you drag this conversation into "HLP attempts to explain to Lorric why we can't explain anything to Lorric (fails)" this site will seriously risk gravitational collapse.

[Luis Dias]

ahahahahah

come on, Lorric has been a very nice chap, just a tad bit over-the-top in his requests (as usual). We are all imperfect anyway, can't we all get along?

[Lorric]

Yeah, but in that scenario of the mountain, etc., you should never ask for people to pull you up. You can ask them how did they get up and how can you get up there. People will then tell you where you can get your own material, etc.,etc., and then you do the required work.

Yeah, work is hard. That's how people do it. IOW, sometimes it is far more important to learn how to fish than to have fish everyday handed directly in your plate.

I do read material. And I use the fish thing as well, I do believe in that.

ahahahahah

come on, Lorric has been a very nice chap, just a tad bit over-the-top in his requests (as usual). We are all imperfect anyway, can't we all get along?

I would ask you not to do that. The last time you used a "Lorric is this", you were wrong and I was right.

But I thank you for the rest of what you said.

[NGTM-1R]

I do read material.

Then why do we end up having to explain so much of it to you? Why do we end up having to point out you need to do basic reading before participating further in the discussion? Why do you keep participating after you've been told this?

[Lorric]

So, what exactly am I supposed to have been getting in the way of here?

I do not appreciate being silenced for nothing.

[The E]

There, split the threads.

Also, noone "silenced" you. We were just pointing out that the kind of dialogue you apparently want or need to get educated is not something that is interesting to anyone but you, and tedious and exhausting for the rest of us to produce. We are not a school. We aren't teachers. We're just random internet people. We should not be your first, second or third address for this kind of thing, is what we're saying.

We have no problems elaborating on or explaining our positions. But we cannot be expected to teach you the finer points of social or political theory. That's something you need to do yourself. Once you've done that, we can continue to talk about what you've learned.

[Lorric]

There, split the threads.

Also, noone "silenced" you. We were just pointing out that the kind of dialogue you apparently want or need to get educated is not something that is interesting to anyone but you, and tedious and exhausting for the rest of us to produce. We are not a school. We aren't teachers. We're just random internet people. We should not be your first, second or third address for this kind of thing, is what we're saying.

We have no problems elaborating on or explaining our positions. But we cannot be expected to teach you the finer points of social or political theory. That's something you need to do yourself. Once you've done that, we can continue to talk about what you've learned.

Hmmm, does that mean you are willing to continue? Oh, and if you're wondering, I agreed with you when you said these things:

I can't tell you. I was raised in a very political household (My father was a member of the Social Democrat Party for a long time, and worked closely with the local functionaries), and discussions about politics happened often. My father made an effort to show me and my sister how politics work, and to encourage us to think critically about politics. Politics were also a topic in school for me, and one I was interested in learning more about (The fact that our household was free of tabloids and rich in serious newspapers was a bonus too).

Can't, really. I cannot teach you how to analyze rhetoric, because I have no idea where to start and have no time to do it in any case.

Answered above. My upbringing had a lot to do with it.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that it is only interesting to me. It might be useful to others simply watching. People discuss things to learn and grow, that's what I've always thought this board to be about. Surely it must be of some interest to you as well, or why would you talk to me? And while it might not be a school, I don't treat it as such, but I'm always trying to learn. From anyone and any thing. And the people on HLP are not random people, they're smart people. Youtube has random people.

And maybe this is where I get confused, because as long as people are willing to talk to me, and the subject interests me, I want to keep going. If the other person does become tired of what was once something they liked doing, it is best that they simply explain this and withdraw, leaving things on good terms. I'm not going to chase them if they try to leave. But I have no way of knowing how the other person feels at the other end, or why they are talking to me. I would have no idea where or how to learn such things. Formal education is not something I'm seeking.

[The E]

And if you're talking one-on-one, that is not a problem. This is a forum, however, and whether or not others are interested in the topic is easy to measure by the number of participants in a given discussion.

[Lorric]

And if you're talking one-on-one, that is not a problem. This is a forum, however, and whether or not others are interested in the topic is easy to measure by the number of participants in a given discussion.

I am confused. I don't see why it is wrong to continue talking. It's not harming anyone, they can do as they please. I just want to talk. If you don't want to, that's okay.

[The E]

They may do as they please, yes.

They may also feel that the thing they wanted to contribute to the thread is no longer appropriate due to the current topic of the thread. Two people talking about the finer points of governance drowning out everything else on that topic is a massive turn-off.

[Lorric]

They may do as they please, yes.

They may also feel that the thing they wanted to contribute to the thread is no longer appropriate due to the current topic of the thread. Two people talking about the finer points of governance drowning out everything else on that topic is a massive turn-off.

While I do not dispute what you are saying, I'm afraid it is something I will never see on my own, as I do not think in such terms. I simply do not see such subtleties. If others are talking about something I don't like, I will just ignore it. If I want to say something, I will just say it. Nobody is made to talk to me. I won't get anywhere if I say nothing.

It is saddening that our discussion has stopped because of this. If you simply did not want to talk, that would be fine, but I was really engaged and felt I was learning valuable things.

[The E]

And now you know how others felt when they discovered that a thread they were interested in had devolved into Politics 101.

[Lorric]

And now you know how others felt when they discovered that a thread they were interested in had devolved into Politics 101.

Powerful... I am very sorry if I have made anyone feel that way.

But I'm sorry, I won't be able to stop it happening again. I can't see what others can see.

I'm happy to take such things into PMs though if anyone wants to. What about split off thread like this one? Then I get to have my thing, and everyone else gets to have theirs, and no one gets hurt.

[MP-Ryan]

I think if you drag this conversation into "HLP attempts to explain to Lorric why we can't explain anything to Lorric (fails)" this site will seriously risk gravitational collapse.

I'm reading this on a coffee break at work and your post just put me at serious risk of being stared at for riotous laughter emanating from my cubicle.  Given that our paperwork does not typically invoke riotous laughter, my colleagues would immediately flock over and wonder what I found that was so hilarious.

By the way, I quit reading all the line-by-line response starting on what is now page 2.  Allow me to echo The E:  We have no problem debating points.  I have a very big problem with teaching, beyond the initial background required to debate.  I admire The E's patience in putting up with it for an entire page.