[Mongoose]

Not sure if should lock, or just laugh.

[Polpolion]

Which is why I opt for the Heinlein route instead. You can choose to not serve society, but in doing so, you will not be able to make decisions for society.

Which is also absurd. A government that has no option but to coerce its population into its defense has serious legitimacy problems.

[StarSlayer]

So the Swiss government forcing its citizens to own a firearm is okay but other EU governments enforcing other policies makes their populace serfs? 


Choco Weggli and Toblerone are pretty awesome.

[Nakura]

Which is why I opt for the Heinlein route instead. You can choose to not serve society, but in doing so, you will not be able to make decisions for society.

Which is also absurd. A government that has no option but to coerce its population into its defense has serious legitimacy problems.

I'm afraid that's what it's come to. We have to defend ourselves from the lechers and communists that would leave our nation corrupt. If we let down the walls, let down the defenses, even for a second, the parasites will surely strike and destroy all that we have worked so hard to build.

I believe that only those who are willing to die for freedom and democracy deserve it. To each their own though.

[EvidenceOfFault]

Which is why I opt for the Heinlein route instead. You can choose to not serve society, but in doing so, you will not be able to make decisions for society.

Which is also absurd. A government that has no option but to coerce its population into its defense has serious legitimacy problems.

I'm afraid that's what it's come to. We have to defend ourselves from the lechers and communists that would leave our nation corrupt. If we let down the walls, let down the defenses, even for a second, the parasites will surely strike and destroy all that we have worked so hard to build.

/sarcasm

I believe that only those who are willing to die for freedom and democracy deserve it. To each their own though.

Precious bodily fluids?

[Luis Dias]

I sometimes have this perverted wish where all these folks who proclaim they'll die for our freedoms would just do that instantly and free us from their boring annoying company.

[Polpolion]

only those who are willing to die for freedom and democracy deserve it.

How exactly does this follow?

[StarSlayer]

Which is why I opt for the Heinlein route instead. You can choose to not serve society, but in doing so, you will not be able to make decisions for society.

Which is also absurd. A government that has no option but to coerce its population into its defense has serious legitimacy problems.

I'm afraid that's what it's come to. We have to defend ourselves from the lechers and communists that would leave our nation corrupt. If we let down the walls, let down the defenses, even for a second, the parasites will surely strike and destroy all that we have worked so hard to build.

/sarcasm

I believe that only those who are willing to die for freedom and democracy deserve it. To each their own though.

So you want to turn military into self service rather than service to ones country?

[Luis Dias]

He's just voicing Heinlein. He'll grow up eventually. I think.

[Nakura]

only those who are willing to die for freedom and democracy deserve it.

How exactly does this follow?

Why should someone make decisions for society if they aren't willing to defend that society?

[StarSlayer]

only those who are willing to die for freedom and democracy deserve it.

How exactly does this follow?

Why should someone make decisions for society if they aren't willing to defend that society?

What society would that be?  You've turned military service into a vehicle for self interest rather than society.

[Nakura]

only those who are willing to die for freedom and democracy deserve it.

How exactly does this follow?

Why should someone make decisions for society if they aren't willing to defend that society?

What society would that be?  You've turned military service into a vehicle for self interest rather than society.

It already is a vehicle for self-service, however. Many people who enlist in the military today only do it because they want healthcare or citizenship (for immigrants) or free college or a pension or they simply can't find another job.

[headdie]

I believe that only those who are willing to die for freedom and democracy deserve it. To each their own though.

here is the thing though, if the state requires you to spend time in military service is the person truly willing?

----

here is something you might not like.

My full position on this is:
required conscription is a reduction of personal freedoms simple as but by itself that is not necessarily a bad thing, in this case there are demonstrable advantages for both society in general and the individual including guaranteeing a standing military, a high standard of physical fitness for the individuals as a shared experience to them as well.

[An4ximandros]

Okay Ayn Rand, the gig is over.

[Nakura]

Also, I don't think that wanting to vote is "self-serving" per se. You're wanting to make decisions for society to make it a better place for everyone. I'm really not sure I'd call that self-serving...

[swashmebuckle]

The price of freedom is giving up your freedom, but the receipt for freedom is one of those cute little flag pins!

[Nakura]

I believe that only those who are willing to die for freedom and democracy deserve it. To each their own though.

here is the thing though, if the state requires you to spend time in military service is the person truly willing?

----

here is something you might not like.

My full position on this is:
required conscription is a reduction of personal freedoms simple as but by itself that is not necessarily a bad thing, in this case there are demonstrable advantages for both society in general and the individual including guaranteeing a standing military, a high standard of physical fitness for the individuals as a shared experience to them as well.

A good point, which is one of the reasons I don't support conscription.

Thank you for sharing your position, you make some valid points. Absolutely, society would be healthier and defended against invaders. I think it would also provide a mental, as well as physical, advantage to society. For instance, it would give people a sense of purpose and a sense of responsibility to society, as well as teach them respect and teamwork.

[StarSlayer]

It already is a vehicle for self-service, however. Many people who enlist in the military today only do it because they want healthcare or citizenship (for immigrants) or free college or a pension or they simply can't find another job.

I like how you just equated the military to "I can't do better so I guess I'll join the Corps"

[Nakura]

It already is a vehicle for self-service, however. Many people who enlist in the military today only do it because they want healthcare or citizenship (for immigrants) or free college or a pension or they simply can't find another job.

I like how you just equated the military to "I can't do better so I guess I'll join the Corps"

I said that a lot of people who enlist do it for those reasons, rather than out of a sense of patriotism or duty to society. I didn't say "all," nor did I say "most," I said "many."

[An4ximandros]

So, now you are against conscription even though you were idolizing it a few moments before?