Author Topic: Something that needs to be talked about  (Read 4595 times)

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
Incoherent thread is incoherent.

Just how many people with mental incontinence need to start "discussions" on these boards? I thought Nakura was bad, but this one takes the cake.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
This argument is essentially a rocket built out of Lego.  You either need to build it out of real rocket parts or build something that can be reasonably achieved with Lego.  It's not even worth debating in its current state since the main point and all the components trying to prove it are so vaguely defined and generic.

careful, someone might actually try to build one.
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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
Hm... this seems topical:

I've read in multiple places (which don't cite a source, so there's no point in me citing them) that pre-emptive wars are "illegal". But I don't know what that means. Illegal according to US law? Unconstitutional according to the US constitution? Illegal according to "international law"? I don't really even know what that means... does it just mean a specific treaty to which the US is a signatory, or is there some body of law common to all nations, e.g. stuff done by the UN?



Maybe-relevant current events thing: Obama said himself that he doesn't have the constitutional power to do this military-involvement-in-Syria sort of thing (in the context of a hypothetical pre-emptive attack on Iran's nuclear capabilities, a scenario wherein it was explicitly stated there was NOT an imminent threat). Not without authorization by Congress.

That gets my :yes: But now he's acting like he may go and do it anyway :no:

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
Sort of like how Musk released the stuff with the Hyperloop.

I know it was probably not on purpose, but think for a second about that sentence and the ego it implies. Ahahah!

So you say a vague combination of vague generic politcal clichés "A country needs the support of the people to start a war!" where it's not even clear if it's a moral stance, a political stance or an observation of how things work, whatever.

And then you compare it to the effort that Musk and his team put forth into bringing the hyperloop to the community for discussion!

:D

I mean, this is the only thing interesting that popped into my eyes. All the rest is either already being discussed in the Syrian thread or is just captain obvious territory.

 

Offline Beskargam

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
Maybe-relevant current events thing: Obama said himself that he doesn't have the constitutional power to do this military-involvement-in-Syria sort of thing (in the context of a hypothetical pre-emptive attack on Iran's nuclear capabilities, a scenario wherein it was explicitly stated there was NOT an imminent threat). Not without authorization by Congress.

That gets my :yes: But now he's acting like he may go and do it anyway :no:

President can move troops and conduct military operations anywhere in the world so long as he informs congress within 48 hours?. Also the War Powers Act is still on the books allowing for the President to conduct military operations for 60 days without the consent of congress. Followed by a 30 day period for troops to withdraw. Presidents are usually given very very broad ....leniency in the use of this power. Congress has not issued a formal declaration of war since WWII, but they have approved every conflict via a resolution (correct me if wrong). Also the Pre-emptive strike  notion seems...unlikely in the manner that most people thing of as a sledgehammer destroying everything. So long as casualties among the US military remain low (like Libya) chances are both the public and congress will go along with limited intervention.

I do believe the current situation in the US regarding the use of armed forces reflects a crisis of national identity in regards to how the US should conduct itself in foreign diplomacy post Cold War. For ~half a century foreign policy was defeat the soviets (This is somewhat simplified). I think that the US is currently struggling to define itself on the world stage in what it wants to do accomplish without an adversary. It has the most powerful military in the world and nothing to do with it. There is a void and its purpose must be filled as "defense" is no longer a legitimate reason for the size and power of our current military. Some people/views would like the US to act as the world's police force/peacekeepers (moral obligation), another idea is to extoll/export american virtues (Freedom, Democracy etc), another is to see the expansion of US interests abroad (economic, military), another view is that the our military is unnecessary in its current state and should be downsized. Lastly there is a an isolationist trend that wants to let the world do its own thing and focus on issues at home. It should be noted that none of the these forces are mutually exclusive and the arm of American influence is motivated by all of these factors at time.

Additionally I believe that America since the Monroe doctrine has been an imperial power, and since the turn of the 20th century has been a non-traditional empire in that it does not seek to acquire territory, but instead to acquire influence. I also think America has undergone a slow decline of it's world influence since the end of the cold war, but policy makers in many ways still act as if the US has more world influence than it currently does.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
It should also be noted that the british parliament has voted to not support any military operations in Syria at this time.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
Polish PM has also declared that Poland will not commit any military forces to Syria. While I wouldn't put my money on his word, the general sentiment in the government seems to be along these lines.

  

Offline Sandwich

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
This is the situation in the Middle East right now;



I find it funny that that chart omits the main arrow-relationship that was likely the catalyst for the chart to be created in the first place: the relationship between the Syrian Rebels and Assad. :p
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
I'd assume that was a given. :p

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
Well, there's a bunch of things it's both omitting and including that are a given.... Israel -> Hamas is included, but Israel -> Iran isn't, for example. ;)
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Mika

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Re: Something that needs to be talked about
I don't know how far away I'm from the truth, but I'd say the only thing keeping the US dollar (and consequently the country) afloat is the fact that US has the largest military machine on the planet.
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