[Luis Dias]

he also used the no-real-scotman, so your book is wronnnn!

[Phantom Hoover]

i am a perfectly true scotsman thank you very much

[AtomicClucker]

Personally I loved this little book.

Sad thing they don't teach this sort of stuff right off the bat in any logic classes, nor do figureheads encourage their followers to think for themselves (appeal to authority). Send a copy to every neckbeard!

So Thank You E, I feel much better after seeing this.

The sad thing is we all dig our little hands into these things, but I would argue, it's all to deliciously human of us.

[karajorma]

I should point out that anyone trying to use formal discussion rules of this type to bully people would very quickly fall foul of both the "niceness" and "soapboxing" rules of the forum (and probably "unintentional trolling" too) and very quickly find themselves unable to debate on here.

So yeah, use them to police your own arguments, and maybe point them out if someone has made a really big one, but try to nitpick someone's argument to win, and you'll find yourself the loser.

[FelixJim]

I've never fully clicked with the whole "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" idea. How else am I to assure myself there are no raptors in the room? If you can prove there ought to be evidence (claw-marks, my blood) but isn't, doesn't that count for something?

[deathfun]

The best arguments I've had were when both parties were intoxicated and didn't give a damn about winning the actual argument
It was simply to enjoy the fact we're yelling at eachother for something so trivial for the simple reason that it was fun

So what I'm trying to say here is...
...next discussion in GenDisc everyone get smashed

[karajorma]

This was posted on HLP a few years back and is a another good resource on the same subject.

[Phantom Hoover]

I don't want to harp on about this but that page has the same problem, i.e. it puts the emphasis on spotting other people's use of fallacies, and frames their use as being calculated and malicious to boot.

[karajorma]

The intent of detailing and naming these insidious tactics is so that the reader may AVOID USING THEM, to quickly recognize if someone else is using them, and for fun. There is much humor in the way people (consciously or unconsciously) conversationally cheat.

It is hoped that exposing these tactics will help muzzle the growing abuse in our conversational landscape. Give copies to both perpetrators and victims (only NOT for profit use).

Seems like they are being quite fair about the fact that the reader themselves is often the one using these tactics. In fact I can only think of one section where they really complain more about someone else using these kinds of arguments and that's when they talk about politicians. Which is a fair complaint.

What they're really saying is that we all do this to a greater or lesser degree and it's a good idea to realise it so that you can stop.

[Phantom Hoover]

goddamn it luis was right, all this agreeing with each other is so ****ing infuriating

[deathfun]

goddamn it luis was right, all this agreeing with each other is so ****ing infuriating

No it isn't

[headdie]

thing is it's something i think most of us agree on, I think the problem is that human nature drives us to compete which is when we slip into using these techniques.

[Luis Dias]

It's like we all agree that beauty and truth are good things. The problems arrive in the particulars.

[Mr. Vega]

Well I think there's a distinct difference between knowing how to argue (and this book gives us a good list of things to avoid when arguing) and engaging in an argument in a dick-ish way "let's show these n00bs they know nothing about debating... let's see how many fallacies I can spot in less than 5 minutes... GO!".

I've had quite a lot of encounters with the latter kind of people, and it's neither informative nor appealling. A bunch of sites and forums quite degraded IMO for letting these morons free reign to terrorize everyone else they do not agree with.

I see you blessedly came here after the Kazan era.

[Luis Dias]

Who / What is / was Kazan?

[Mr. Vega]

Who / What is / was Kazan?

Hahah.

Hahahahaha

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=24890.msg501746#msg501746

He did this all the time.

[Luis Dias]

Oh I remember Kazan. But the Kazan I recall was nothing like that. Well, people do grow up eventually. I do remember me making really **** posts and be all aggressive (even here in HLP!) too.