[Mongoose]

Because it's one of those games that I always hear amazing things about, but haven't played or watched being played personally.

You really should at some point.  I'm not a huge fan of RPGs in general, to say nothing of the J-variety, but I loved the hell out of it.  Actually I think playing it first really spoiled Final Fantasy VI for me, because it feels really plodding in comparison.

[AdmiralRalwood]

And then there's Tales of Phantasia and Front Mission, which didn't see English releases during the SNES era, but both kicked off excellent franchises (and are still very good games in their own right, if you can find a translated ROM, or just get one of the later ports).

[Torchwood]

Seiken Densetsu 3, anyone? One of my favourite RPGs from the age of the SNES, and IMO deserves more love. The predecessor Secret of Mana was pretty damn good as well.

[Spoon]

It's not really the graphics but the basic gameplay, they're generally based on a crude and direct translation of tabletop mechanics, an approach which just doesn't work due to the basic differences in the position of humans in the system.

Are you seriously saying as a 'fact' that the basic gameplay of games like baldur's gate/icewind dale/fallout doesn't work? I sure hope you aren't (that im somehow misreading your post), cause that would be... how to put this nicely... retarded.

[Mr. Vega]

hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly

Baldur's Gate 2 has not aged horribly.

hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly

You're not playing Torment for the graphics.

It's not really the graphics but the basic gameplay, they're generally based on a crude and direct translation of tabletop mechanics, an approach which just doesn't work due to the basic differences in the position of humans in the system.

The gameplay actually holds up perfectly well, but you're not playing Torment for the combat either. You know damn well why Torment was and always will be a great game. Same goes for Xenogears.

[Mr. Vega]

I didn't realize how good 1998 was, but even 1998 can't hold a candle to 1993:

The 7th Guest
Betrayal at Krondor
Day of the Tentacle
Doom
Iron Helix
Master of Orion
Myst
X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)

And that doesn't include the various sequels such as Space Quest V, Wing Commander: Privateer, etc.

The only two games on that list that haven't aged hideously are Day of the Tentacle and X-Wing. The same cannot be said for any of the games I listed excepting possibly Half Life and Grim Fandango. Sorry, but my childhood beats your childhood

Sorry, but childhood nostalgia was not the only criteria I used.   All of the above games established major franchises or advanced the state-of-the-art in a major way.

You get points for innovation but I care much more about raw quality. So again, IMO, by today's standards, only X-Wing and Day of the Tentacle hold up.

If you're curious I consider Metroid to be the oldest game that's any good.

[Dragon]

Care to explain why you omitted Myst again? Didn't play it, or what?
The original is still really pretty (if not to the point of the later ones), and there's a 3D remake (RealMyst) that looks even better.

[Goober5000]

X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)

...no, I'm pretty sure if you want to trace lineage like that, then that'd make Battlehawks 1942 the ur-FreeSpace. (Because the development of that lead to the development of Their Finest Hour: The Battle of Britain, which lead to the development of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, which is what convinced them they had the chops to make X-Wing.)

Well, no, if you want to go back further than X-Wing, Wing Commander is the ur-ur-FreeSpace.  Chris Roberts actually approached Lucasfilm to make a game based on Star Wars, but they wouldn't give him the license, so he came up with his own universe.  Flight sims and space sims are rather distinct.

You get points for innovation but I care much more about raw quality. So again, IMO, by today's standards, only X-Wing and Day of the Tentacle hold up.

Pbhh.  If you care about raw quality, go start up Betrayal at Krondor this minute.  You can get it for $5.99 at GOG.  It's like playing a novel.  An exceptionally good sword-and-sorcery novel.

[NGTM-1R]

Flight sims and space sims are rather distinct.

Except in this case they're not. As I said, and as you apparently ignored, it was the successful creation of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe that lead directly to the creation of X-Wing. There are two reasons; the first was that SWOTL reached a wide enough audience, and the second was the successful implementation of the multiple-turret many-overlapping-field-of-fire B-17 in a balanced way.

The engines actually share more than a few similarities, including a particular maneuver that the AI doesn't know how to respond to and will lock up when you perform.

[Luis Dias]

I was being slightly facetious regarding Half Life's "lack" of a story, and I agree with The_E's assessment of its qualities.... I just didn't like the story and for the most 99% of the game's time, there is little story to contend with. Mostly it's a Quake 2 with more brains and better puzzles.

[Colonol Dekker]

We'll it would be seeing as it's quake 2 based.

[Luis Dias]

No it wasn't. It was developed with Quake I's engine and it was intended to be released in direct competition with Q2 (before the delays kept that objective to come to reality). Its first ... 3/5 hours or so were brilliant. Just pure brilliancy. Then it kinda peaks and goes downhill pretty fast. It goes "huh this is like Quake2 now" to "huh this is like Duke Nukem now" to "Huh this is like Super Mario now". Its immersive atmosphere just goes away and when we reach Xen I just stopped caring at all about it (I think I never went through any Xen level).

(Look at me now, dissing one of the most revolutionary games ever made! Yeah, I know it sounds arrogant on my part, and it probably is! I just compare it with, say, MDK2, which never gets boring or un-immersive, never "peaks" the same way and it always gets more and more interesting until the end).

[Colonol Dekker]

I used to use quake two's pak editing tools and rad variant light compilers to make my worldcraft levels in halflife

[Scourge of Ages]

Seiken Densetsu 3, anyone? One of my favourite RPGs from the age of the SNES, and IMO deserves more love. The predecessor Secret of Mana was pretty damn good as well.

Woot! And Earthbound too, even though the graphics really show their age, the game is still awesome.

[BloodEagle]

Seiken Densetsu 3, anyone? One of my favourite RPGs from the age of the SNES, and IMO deserves more love. The predecessor Secret of Mana was pretty damn good as well.

Woot! And Earthbound too, even though the graphics really show their age, the game is still awesome.

I must be one of those people who don't find older graphics offensive....

Anywho. 

Mother 2 was recently released on the WiiStore, for those who don't have a copy.

These are also relevant to how awesome it is:

http://earthbound.nintendo.com/message/

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/07/marcus-lindblom-earthbound/all/

[Phantom Hoover]

It's not really the graphics but the basic gameplay, they're generally based on a crude and direct translation of tabletop mechanics, an approach which just doesn't work due to the basic differences in the position of humans in the system.

Are you seriously saying as a 'fact' that the basic gameplay of games like baldur's gate/icewind dale/fallout doesn't work? I sure hope you aren't (that im somehow misreading your post), cause that would be... how to put this nicely... retarded.

Well yes, because in tabletop RPGs you run through all the numbers yourself and the process of calculation is engaging all by itself; in a computer RPG you're just watching as a bunch of stats get munched through an automated calculator and the numbers themselves aren't very interesting.

[swashmebuckle]

I love X-wing, but I just got it working on my computer a month or so ago and I can't honestly say it holds up very well. There is just way too much waiting for something to happen/crawling towards distant targets. I don't mind slow paced works of art, but sitting around watching a number tick down isn't my ideal form of gameplay.

[Nakura]

This year we have Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy XIV, X: Rebirth, Beyond: Two Souls, StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm, ARMA 3 and Dota 2.

In 2014 I'm looking forward to WildStar, Dreamfall Chapters, Planetary Annihilation, The Long Dark, Swords of Edo, Phantasy Star Nova, Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts III, Project Eternity, DayZ, Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls and Super Smash Bros. 4.

Sounds like a good year indeed.

[Goober5000]

Flight sims and space sims are rather distinct.

Except in this case they're not. As I said, and as you apparently ignored, it was the successful creation of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe that lead directly to the creation of X-Wing. There are two reasons; the first was that SWOTL reached a wide enough audience, and the second was the successful implementation of the multiple-turret many-overlapping-field-of-fire B-17 in a balanced way.

Very well, if they served as a ramp-up to X-Wing, either in technical implementation or marketing, then that's fine.  But you in turn apparently ignored my counter-argument in favor of Wing Commander.

The engines actually share more than a few similarities, including a particular maneuver that the AI doesn't know how to respond to and will lock up when you perform.

Interesting.  Which maneuver is that?

[Colonol Dekker]

I used to try to hide by capital ships falcon pre-bespin style.