[Flipside]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24967042

"Spanish prosecutors are seeking a 20-month prison sentence for a professional pianist whose former neighbour is suing over alleged noise pollution."

They are also, apparently, looking for a 6 month ban on her playing professionally.


I.. really don't know what to say here. I can understand how someone practising every day can be infuriating for the neighbours, I'm a musician myself, so I always try to remain aware that not everyone wants to hear me working on stuff. But jail and a ban on playing professionally? Really?

Maybe Spain has turned from the country that loves music to the country that hates it whilst I wasn't looking?

[Dragon]

What is the world coming to? Her neighbors should be glad that they can hear some actual music instead of dumb pop love songs you usually hear on radio.

[BloodEagle]

The article was a little on the short side, so the problem isn't really well defined and the history isn't fleshed out enough.

That being said:
• Noise canceling headphones
• Earplugs
• Other music
• Sand barrier in walls - [either party could have done this]
• Noise cancellation foam - [health hazard depending on climate, expensive, not ideal]
• ****ing communicating and working out a schedule or something

There are multiple options to handle this that should have been explored before trying such punitive measures.

On the other hand, noise pollution is really annoying.  If complaints were received continually and proper measures weren't being taken, I can see where the neighbors would have a case.

[Herra Tohtori]

Appreciation of fine arts aside, I would like to point out that having to listen to musicians actually practicing (as opposed to performing) is not exactly the most relaxing experience. In fact, it can be really annoying. Infuriating, even, if you can't get away from it. No one wants to hear that all day erry day... and I think it is the musician's obligation to ensure that his work does not disturb other peoples' homes. If it's not possible to practice at home because of too much noise, then she should've arranged to practice elsewhere or switch to electric piano with headphones for home practice. 'Cause, you know, I assume she didn't actually perform on the same piano anyway that she practiced with at home... so the keyboard feel would be different anyway.

Didn't read the article, but I have a feeling that there's more to this story than "asshole music hating neighbour sues pianist"...

[Flipside]

Unusual thing about where I live is that there are several musically inclined groups living within about 4 houses of each other, a rock band, a soul singer and a composer (me). The Rock band practice (loudly) most weekends, to the point where another couple in the street, who are retired, have moved forward their plans to sell up and move abroad because it's impossible to sit in the garden and enjoy the sun without hearing this band. So I do understand how this can be infuriating.

But, as has been mentioned before, a simple order banning her from practising at home and requiring she hire out a rehearsal room would have been a far better route to take than to start requesting over a year in jail. No matter how bad things got, it beggars belief that the person making the complaint should wait that long before taking legal action, and even more so that a custodial sentence should be demanded for it.

If it was that bad, the question that I want answered is 'What was done before this in order to deal with the problem?', because if it went from nothing to this, then something is seriously wrong with the system.

[Flipside]

Sorry for the double post, but there's a bit more information on Yahoo...

http://news.yahoo.com/spain-prosecutor-defends-jail-time-pianist-162918175.html

Apparently her playing reached 40 Decibels, which isn't actually all that loud at all, it's about equivalent to the sound of the hum of a refrigerator, or a computer power supply. Whilst the claim that it went on for 8 hours a day might be a mitigating factor, it seems more like a case of terrible laws mixed with with asshole.

[Phantom Hoover]

"prosecutors are seeking a 20-month prison sentence" I guess letting little details like this imprisonment not actually having happened yet get in the way of your sensationalist moralising about What Society Is Coming To would ruin the fun

[Flipside]

What on Earth are you talking about? Pretty much everyone who has posted here has said that they'd like more information before 'moralizing' about anything...

And for those who are interested, here's a comparison chart for Decibels so you can get an idea of where the volume levels stand..

http://www.industrialnoisecontrol.com/comparative-noise-examples.htm

[Phantom Hoover]

"Maybe Spain has turned from the country that loves music to the country that hates it whilst I wasn't looking?"

"What is the world coming to? Her neighbors should be glad that they can hear some actual music instead of dumb pop love songs you usually hear on radio."

Yeah this thread's just been brimming with nuance

[Mongoose]

Sorry for the double post, but there's a bit more information on Yahoo...

http://news.yahoo.com/spain-prosecutor-defends-jail-time-pianist-162918175.html

Apparently her playing reached 40 Decibels, which isn't actually all that loud at all, it's about equivalent to the sound of the hum of a refrigerator, or a computer power supply. Whilst the claim that it went on for 8 hours a day might be a mitigating factor, it seems more like a case of terrible laws mixed with with asshole.

Okay that is ****ing ridiculous.  I have to deal with our asshole neighbors' dogs barking multiple times per day...does that mean I can get them locked up for two years too?

[Flipside]

"Maybe Spain has turned from the country that loves music to the country that hates it whilst I wasn't looking?"

"What is the world coming to? Her neighbors should be glad that they can hear some actual music instead of dumb pop love songs you usually hear on radio."

Yeah this thread's just been brimming with nuance

Well, firstly, that has nothing to do with the line you quoted. Secondly, of course people are going to make comments like that in this situation, the question you quoted of mine was a rhetorical one, not a literal one, and the comment about music types was a single line in an entire thread, a personal opinion, and certainly not worth attacking the entire thread for. Don't take everything so literally as though it were a personal insult.

Anyway, back on topic :

@Mongoose: Yup, apparently the legal limit for musical instruments in Spain is 30Db, which is about equivalent to a desert at night, so even the initial law seems a bit crazy, I think it's a comedy of errors that has somehow got completely out of control.

The only question that remains in my mind is, was that value relative to the background noise or an absolute reading, usually these reading are absolute but if it was 40Db above background noise, that's a different level entirely, but I doubt that because it would put her piano at around Jet Fighter levels, since the Decibel curve is exponential.

[Flak]

This isn't dog barking or some someone using drills or jackhammers at night. No wonder Europe economy is falling apart, their laws are slowly getting more and more ridiculous that people used them to gain money from minor infringement. Man, I am happy when the kid next door is playing piano instead of some jerk playing hiphop at insane volume or whatever they called 'music' in the radio.

[Flipside]

My own opinion is that it's a silly law that has allowed things to go way too far. It's impossible to say what the final judgement will be, so I can't comment on the outcome but it certainly seems that whatever the outcome is, there ought to be calls for measures to make sure things don't go to these kinds of extremes in search of a resolution.

[The E]

"Maybe Spain has turned from the country that loves music to the country that hates it whilst I wasn't looking?"

"What is the world coming to? Her neighbors should be glad that they can hear some actual music instead of dumb pop love songs you usually hear on radio."

Yeah this thread's just been brimming with nuance

If you take the utterings of two different people as defining the tone of the entire thread, you REALLY need to work on your reading skills.

[Phantom Hoover]

This isn't dog barking or some someone using drills or jackhammers at night. No wonder Europe economy is falling apart, their laws are slowly getting more and more ridiculous that people used them to gain money from minor infringement. Man, I am happy when the kid next door is playing piano instead of some jerk playing hiphop at insane volume or whatever they called 'music' in the radio.

no reactionary doomsayers in this thread, nosiree

[Flipside]

No offense, but firstly that comment was made after your original claim, and secondly, you didn't claim there were reactionary doomsayers in the thread, you said there was sensationalist moralizing in it, and finally, your comments referred to the entire thread, not to a single post within it.

[karajorma]

"prosecutors are seeking a 20-month prison sentence" I guess letting little details like this imprisonment not actually having happened yet get in the way of your sensationalist moralising about What Society Is Coming To would ruin the fun

I think we've all had quite enough of this sort of post. Take a week off from Gen Disc.

[Flak]

Not at all, I am just wondering why do they have a lot of time doing these kind of things, while the more important things, like taking care of their economy for example, can take the backseat.

[Herra Tohtori]

Wtf, 40 dB is hardly audible. It sounds to me like when that law was made, no one consulted anyone who actually knew what a decibel is.

Normal speech is generally 60 dB... 40 dB is a whisper.

[watsisname]

Yeah, something seems awfully wrong with this information.  Either the law was written really stupidly, or the sound level measurements are reported incorrectly, or someone really is being a total dick if they're suing someone for 40dB of music noise.