[SaltyWaffles]

In other words, could the HoL affect (or have affected) the war by leaking information (truths behind the war, the UEF, etc) to the general public of the GTVA? It seems like a much safer way to undermine the GTVA than rampant internal sabotage of warships and security systems, and much more effective--if public opinion is really as divided as they say it is, this could really be the catalyst to break public support for the war completely. That is, of course, if they aren't doing so already, with the divisive public opinion being the result.

Or even leaking the truth behind the assassination of Elder Taudigauni to Admiral Racmai (sp?) and Khonsu II--complete with the evidence collected by the Wargods?

[leoben]

I think I've seen some posts that suggested that it was already happening. The leaking I mean.

[MatthTheGeek]

The problem is the GTVA is probably fairly competent at tracking and shutting down the source of those leaks. The HoL would loose members as a result and I'm not sure they can afford that.

[Klaustrophobia]

i can't think of any practical way they have of doing this and having it be credible. 

[crizza]

With Steele purging his ranks of HoL agents, I doubt it.

[SaltyWaffles]

With Steele purging his ranks of HoL agents, I doubt it.

This is about getting the word out, not sabotage from within a specific military's ranks. A random civilian posting something on the internet-equivalent would do, so to speak.

I'm not saying it would automatically have much credibility, but just planting the seeds of doubt/giving the Tev public an awareness of other possibilities than what their government has been claiming might be significant.

[Klaustrophobia]

do you have even the SLIGHTEST seed of doubt about any conspiracy theory you've read on the internet?  you'd need a snowden type situation to even begin to mean anything.  and even then, look what happened with that.  it was a sensational news story for a while, then a south park episode, and now it's almost over and nothing ultimately happened.

[MatthTheGeek]

Probably because he didn't reveal anything that everyone didn't already know about.

[Klaustrophobia]

and the GTVA population doesn't already know their government engages in propaganda and secrecy?

[MatthTheGeek]

Secrecy, sure. Propaganda, if they do their job well, not necessarily. After all, how would GTVA citizens know what really happens in Sol aside from military sources ?

[Luis Dias]

You must think GTVA citizens were born yesterday or smth. It's precisely because their only source of info comes from the military that they know it's pure propaganda.

[MatthTheGeek]

I don't think people are stupid. I know it.

[redsniper]

Pesedjet was an inside job! Open your eyes sheepsudans!

[Luis Dias]

I don't think people are stupid. I know it.

You realise you belong to the same species.

[MatthTheGeek]

I do. What was your point ?

[Dragon]

Well, obviously, that's how he knows it, don't you think?
Jokes aside, while an average GTVA citizen might suspect the military isn't telling everything, most would probably go "well, it's not like we have anything better". Sure, people would suspect propaganda, but are likely to be rather apathetic about this fact. You either believe what they tell you and accept their version of events, or you don't, and accept the fact you know nothing what's really going on.
It would probably depend on what the agent would reveal. If he'd only reveal the military isn't telling the whole truth, the situation be like with Snowden. Some would be outraged, more savvy ones would go "Well, duh!", then it'd quiet down. But if he told what the military wanted to hide, there could be trouble. Remember, Snowden mentioned he knows much more than he revealed, but he didn't want to release this info, because that would endanger people. If a hypothetical HOL agent wouldn't have such reservations, a lot of things could happen. And some people would die, probably, because there's a good reason why military secrets are so closely guarded.

[leoben]

comparing the snowden situation with GTVA propaganda is silly. Aside the fact that one of them is completely hypothetical, in the latter, the risk of exposing the GTVA is, in my opinion, at least by an order of magnitude more significant.

And I agree with Matt - people are sheep. Also keep in mind that GTVA citizens have gone through a lot more horror than the UEF - because the military kept them alive during the second shivan incursion, they probably believe everything they're being fed.

That said, doubts must be there. A well placed, thorough enough leak could cause very serious problems for their political leadership. I wouldn't be surprised if during one of the acts, another uprising broke out. We'll see.

[-Norbert-]

I think the GTVA citizens will expect the military to nicen up the real news a bit before releasing it, but I don't think they expect the Sol forces to commit acts like assasination, cooperation with known terrorists, intentional destroying of civilian refugee ships and nuclear bombardment of living areas.

Usually just rumours would probably mean nothing without a credible source to back it up, but don't forget we are not talking about a content population base living in prosperity. We are talking about a powderkeg that was only held together for the last decades by the promise of being able to return to Sol. A goal that has already been delayed by 18 month of war.

So yes, if the HoL can manage to get the word out, I think it might have some really bad effects on the GTVA, but at the same time, I also think that it would be a great risk for the HoL agents, so they won't just try to release the information at random, but rather as part of some kind of plan at a specific time.

[SypheDMar]

I think the GTVA citizens will expect the military to nicen up the real news a bit before releasing it, but I don't think they expect the Sol forces to commit acts like assasination, cooperation with known terrorists, intentional destroying of civilian refugee ships and nuclear bombardment of living areas.

History would say otherwise. Refer to Hitler, Indoctrination, and Big Lie.

Ten years ago, if you told me that Palestinians are terrorists trying to take over Jerusalem and Iran is truly evil and must be destroyed, I would've believed you. Until I studied politics and then paid more attention to real news, I never would've questioned Fox Chicago. I am certain that there are some who believe that Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck are the only real news in the world.

I think that the GTVA would have done a decent job on making sure their story looks good and classifying everything that the citizens don't need to know. Even if the HoL leaked out some of the information, the GTVA would track the leakers down quickly and just like Snowden to America, the people would be mad for a few weeks and then forget all about it.

[SaltyWaffles]

comparing the snowden situation with GTVA propaganda is silly. Aside the fact that one of them is completely hypothetical, in the latter, the risk of exposing the GTVA is, in my opinion, at least by an order of magnitude more significant.

And I agree with Matt - people are sheep. Also keep in mind that GTVA citizens have gone through a lot more horror than the UEF - because the military kept them alive during the second shivan incursion, they probably believe everything they're being fed.

That said, doubts must be there. A well placed, thorough enough leak could cause very serious problems for their political leadership. I wouldn't be surprised if during one of the acts, another uprising broke out. We'll see.

If anything, the most important distinguishing factor here is that allegations of conspiracy are inherently true--the military is the only source of information, access, and news about what's going on in Sol, from the very beginning. The only question is the degree, significance, and nature of what is being kept secret.

It doesn't help that the Tev military launched a pre-emptive, unilateral invasion of Sol as soon as the portal was opened, through an operation which was kept top-secret from anyone who didn't absolutely need to know (the admirals in the 14th BG seemed to be the only ones who knew) until it was carried out. That's extremely suspicious by itself--it literally reeks of conspiracy. So someone laying out a thorough, intelligent case for the other half of the story--that the UEF has been demonized from the very beginning, invaded immediately before any contact had even been established through top-secret orders (which, when revealed, caused several ships of the 14th BG to outright defect in disgust--which is objectively true, unless the GTA council tried to make everyone believe those state-of-the-art ships vanished into thin air along with her crews), and to drive the point home, what argument against it can you make without citing information that either came directly from the GTVA military or from sources strictly controlled and filtered by it?

Even going off of the whole driven-by-fear thing, wouldn't it be easier to frame the conspiracy as a treacherous power-grab orchestrated by a few high-up people in the GTA government/military, rather than the entirety of the GTA being behind some huge conspiracy?