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Author Topic: Required build versions  (Read 2114 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Required build versions
on: January 31, 2014, 12:17:18 pm
Quote from: Fury on January 31, 2014, 12:10:14 pm
Now, the next challenge is to update the mods since everything except FSO is out of date. But unfortunately once Blue Planet and possibly some other mods gets around to update theirs, the official FSO build won't run said mods. Is there any possibility of adding support for FSO executable dependencies? And let me be clear here, I think it is stupid for official mod releases to require unofficial FSO builds. BP should never have gone this route.

BP, the MediaVPs, JAD...sometimes the official builds just aren't viable.
 

Offline Fury

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Re: Required build versions
Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 12:21:44 pm
Quote from: General Battuta on January 31, 2014, 12:17:18 pm
BP, the MediaVPs, JAD...sometimes the official builds just aren't viable.
Perhaps so but that is something to handle with the SCP in cooperation. Going with wide variety of unofficial builds is just making it much harder to end-users to follow which build should be selected with whichever mod.

Edit: Edited my earlier post somewhat to add some more points.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 12:25:09 pm by Fury »
 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Required build versions
Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 12:27:01 pm
I agree, it's a pretty ****ty position to end up in.
  

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Required build versions
Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 01:26:51 pm
The BP builds theoretically won't remain separate from trunk; at some point, those lighting improvements will wind up in an official release. The reason BP went with a separate build at all is because the code freeze was in effect at the time; the reason those changes are still in a separate build is because some computers cannot run those builds at all.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.
 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Required build versions
Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 01:36:07 pm
The lighting 'improvements' are devastating performance-wise, though. I'm not sure what their status will be in the long run.
 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Required build versions
Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 01:40:45 pm
Quote from: General Battuta on January 31, 2014, 01:36:07 pm
The lighting 'improvements' are devastating performance-wise, though.
Well, they perform a lot better than trying to get that many light sources without deferred rendering. :P
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.
 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Required build versions
Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 01:43:20 pm
No, they don't, that's the problem.
 

Offline The E

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Re: Required build versions
Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 01:52:00 pm
Quote from: General Battuta on January 31, 2014, 01:43:20 pm
No, they don't, that's the problem.

Bzzzt, wrong.

There are issues with the deferred renderer (and swifty is working on them), but saying that the old renderer would have rendered the same number of lights faster is flat-out wrong. We tried that approach once. It was not at all pretty.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns
 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Required build versions
Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 01:55:22 pm
AFAIK we've added the ability to render more lights, though. I'm not concerned with the ability to render an equivalent number of lights more rapidly, I'm concerned with the fact that net performance on an identical scene can in some cases drop.

e: because the engine is attempting to do more, even if it's doing so more efficiently
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 02:10:08 pm by General Battuta »
 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Required build versions
Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 02:39:30 pm
This is off-topic...
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