Author Topic: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?  (Read 9688 times)

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What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
I'm trying to play through the original and I find it kind of frustrating to be honest, I've been playing about 8-10 hours now and my characters are all still level 1. You need like 1500-2000 XP to even advance some of these guys and meanwhile I'm in the mines of Naskel and my characters sometimes get killed in 1-2 seconds by Kobolds which themselves are worth only 7 XP! So my group of 6 guys needs to kill 1200 Kobolds (XP is split I think) to advance to level 2 when a pair of these guys can shoot my best tanks down in a second. They're all armour class 3 or less except for some mage.

Maybe I need to give them all large shields or something to protect against projectiles since most of 'em use one-handed weapons anyway. Even so I think one of my guys who got taken down had a medium or heavy shield on him and his 17 HPs were still gone in a single volley from two dudes.

I know modern games tend to throw out levels willy-nilly, but even so you'd think my guys would advance to level 2 after like 10 hours of play and most of them are no where near except for Jaliegh or whatever her name is.

As a comparison I've seen people play Eye of the Beholder which is also D&D and their characters advanced in levels much faster.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
I... I don't know?
Are you doing it wrong?
You are probably doing it wrong?

How are you still level 1 after 8 hours of play?
Have you tried... completing quests? You should probably try completing quests...
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
I've completed a few quests. Did all the Candlekeep quests I came across. Found the two dudes at the Broken Arm Inn or whatever it is. Then the mage wanted to go to the mines so I'm going there to complete a quest but 3 areas in and 40 dead Kobolds later I'm still level 1 and half my team is dead. I can ditch out and go get them resurrected but from what I understand the foreman said I only have a day to do it so, not sure how much truth there is to that.

I think the most XP I got was from killing an assassin in Naskel, she was worth 650 XP but even then, split six ways that's only 100 or so for each character.
I've killed dozens of Hobgoblins, the little blue guys, dire wolves, wolves, attack dogs, couple assassins, etcetera and so forth and still level 1. Like I say Kobold is 7 XP, Level 2 is 1200 at the minimum from what I've seen. Don't see how the math is supposed to add up.


I dunno, I'll keep going, maybe I'll level up after I finish the mine quest. But in-game time I've been going for 7 days already or somesuch.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 02:31:56 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 
Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
This may be a stupid question, but you know, that you have to click the "Level Up" button on the character screen of the specific character in order to gain a new level?
The main game screen does not provide much information that you can level up one of your characters. A simple text message in the dialogue window (which is often enough quickly replaced by other messages) and a small "+"-sign on the character's portrait is all you get.

 
Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
This may be a stupid question, but you know, that you have to click the "Level Up" button on the character screen of the specific character in order to gain a new level?
The main game screen does not provide much information that you can level up one of your characters. A simple text message in the dialogue window (which is often enough quickly replaced by other messages) and a small "+"-sign on the character's portrait is all you get.

Oh yeah I checked that out but the button is greyed out. I regularly check out the characters to see how far away they are from levelling up. As I say only Jaheira, the dual class druid/fighter or whatever is anywhere close.

 
Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
Hm, well regarding the mines, I can tell you that you have all the time you need. So you can return to the surface, stock up and heal. You can also rest in the upper levels, which you have cleared out of kobolds.
A good tactic is to scout ahead with your thief to find enemies and traps, and also equip Jaheira with her sling. She does way more damage with it than with her club. Generally, ranged weapons are pretty powerful in BG1.
If you want to grind a little first,  I can recommend killing bears. Although they are quite strong, they are slow and you can kill them with you ranged weapons and the give you several hundred XPs.

 
Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
Hm, well regarding the mines, I can tell you that you have all the time you need. So you can return to the surface, stock up and heal. You can also rest in the upper levels, which you have cleared out of kobolds.
A good tactic is to scout ahead with your thief to find enemies and traps, and also equip Jaheira with her sling. She does way more damage with it than with her club. Generally, ranged weapons are pretty powerful in BG1.
If you want to grind a little first,  I can recommend killing bears. Although they are quite strong, they are slow and you can kill them with you ranged weapons and the give you several hundred XPs.

Well Jaheira starts with a quarterstaff. So sling's better? Hmmn.
Well one problem is that I don't have many ranged melee guys. I have my main character who's a cleric, plus the two companions from inn Jahiera and whathisface. Also there's a dual class Fighter/ Thief who is . . okay in a pinch. But the other two a necro mancer and a the imoen girl are both back line characters from what I can tell. SO, I usually have 3 three guys up front then the two thieves with bows and the mage behind with a sling. And my melee guys all have slate mail or whatnot.  Anyway the mage or thief guy was complaining about going to the mines that's why I'm there already. Maybe I just need to rest more often to heal up and get my healing skills back. I only have two healers, Jaheira and my cleric character but maybe that's enough.

Anyway I'll keep at it but the XP needed still seems high. I would think that level 2 would only be a couple hundred XP not 1200. :P

Thanks
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 03:08:31 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
1000 XP is pretty much DnD standard for level 2.  Important to remember that this system was not made for Baldur's Gate - it actually uses the vast majority of DnD 3.0 mechanics.

 
Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
1000 XP is pretty much DnD standard for level 2.  Important to remember that this system was not made for Baldur's Gate - it actually uses the vast majority of DnD 3.0 mechanics.

You'd think that would take like, a few months of table top time to get to. Though not sure how much XP is typically awarded per game session.

 
Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
I think I might also supposed to be higher level when I hit the mines because I run into some Greywolf guy and one time I opposed him and he killed all my guys in a single swing. Or maybe he's a recurring character and at that point he's a badass so I shouldn't be able to challenge him.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
yeah you probably dont wanna be in the mines just yet. go outside and get some sidequests done
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline zookeeper

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
Most of the XP is in doing quests rather than combat, so you rather just wander off somewhere and do stuff to gain a level (or two). It's been ages since I played it so I don't know how many travel options you got.

That said, I don't think the combat in the BG series is very interesting. There's a massive amount of encounters that you can't really handle unless you specifically prepare for them or get lucky, and of course there's always the very real chance of just randomly dying from one good hit or a trap or whatever. The fun is in pretty much everything except the combat.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
IIRC, Baldur's Gate is based on ADnD, not 3.0 (although with some back-porting, making it more like 2.5).

Although I only played BG2 long enough to gain any levels; BG:EE is still on my to-play list. Still, it sounds like you're gaining awfully little XP...
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Offline Spoon

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
That said, I don't think the combat in the BG series is very interesting. There's a massive amount of encounters that you can't really handle unless you specifically prepare for them or get lucky, and of course there's always the very real chance of just randomly dying from one good hit or a trap or whatever. The fun is in pretty much everything except the combat.
I do completely disagree. I find the combat super interesting with a lot of spells and counter spells and such. Its deep and challenging combat.
Indeed, there is a quite a few stuff that will kill you outright or will be bloody hard to do without suffering the death to half your party, but reloading and then thinking out a strategy on how to deal with it, preparing your spells and equipment is loads of fun and challenging imo.
There's a lot more to BG's combat than your average rpg that consists of spamming your one all powerful spell or attack.

alot alot alot alot alot
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
Regardless of the complexity of the system and the benefit (or lack) thereof, I find DnD (and more particularly the vidya game adaptations) to have absolutely horrible balance.  Any game in which you can easily and in multiple directions find yourself 100% outclassed by an encounter without intentionally breaking the game is neither fun nor engaging, unless the encounter is supposed to be impossible, in which case it's another artifact of bad design.

Baldur's Gate is awful at fun gameplay and balance.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
And here I have BG:EE on my Steam wishlist.  This thread is making me rethink that.
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
I can't really speak for BG's combat, but there's definitely more options in BG2, even before dipping into mods. True, there are at least some fights that are nigh-impossible if you aren't prepared, but there either optional, or you've under-leveled (at least, in my personal experience! It's a big game, and I haven't finished a playthrough yet).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline zookeeper

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
That said, I don't think the combat in the BG series is very interesting. There's a massive amount of encounters that you can't really handle unless you specifically prepare for them or get lucky, and of course there's always the very real chance of just randomly dying from one good hit or a trap or whatever. The fun is in pretty much everything except the combat.
I do completely disagree. I find the combat super interesting with a lot of spells and counter spells and such. Its deep and challenging combat.
Indeed, there is a quite a few stuff that will kill you outright or will be bloody hard to do without suffering the death to half your party, but reloading and then thinking out a strategy on how to deal with it, preparing your spells and equipment is loads of fun and challenging imo.
There's a lot more to BG's combat than your average rpg that consists of spamming your one all powerful spell or attack.

Eh, well, I don't know. I guess I'm somewhat split. Sure, it's challenging, but constant reloading, setting traps around the corner so you can lure the enemy into it and casting of spells in preparation still seems like cheating.

I might enjoy it when I'm playing because it's more like a puzzle than an immersive experience, but it doesn't leave a very fond memory because it still feels like the game was being unfair and I was just working around it by abusing the mechanics as much as I can.

:confused:

 
Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
I don't mind the combat, my only beef is the progression thus far. I'll keep at it and see how it goes.

I mean it's not super engaging, it's just pausing and tell people what to do, but it's alright for what it does. No worse than fallout or other isometrics from what I can tell.

I kind of prefer turn-based combat but I also realize that turn based can take longer.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: What's so great about Baldur's Gate?
I don't mind the combat, my only beef is the progression thus far. I'll keep at it and see how it goes.

I mean it's not super engaging, it's just pausing and tell people what to do, but it's alright for what it does. No worse than fallout or other isometrics from what I can tell.

I kind of prefer turn-based combat but I also realize that turn based can take longer.
Because at level 1 in BG1 you don't have too much options yet. So the combat may seem rather simple.
Also, BG is like semi turn based, the mechanics are done in turn base (which is why it may seem like your characters are some times not very responsive, because they are waiting for the next round to start so they can do their action).

And here I have BG:EE on my Steam wishlist.  This thread is making me rethink that.
Well if you wanna miss out on one of the best RPG experiences out there, go right ahead!

Baldur's Gate is awfully fun at gameplay and balance.
Fixed that for you.
The combat is great if you know what you are doing. Which I guess might be considered a fault of the game, requiring you to know some things which if played for the first time, you can't reasonably expect to know. But come on, I completed this game when I was 14 years old, had only a basic grasp of the english language and wasn't using half the great spells because 'why use this when you can fireball instead?' mentality of a dumb teenager.
I expect adults to be able to get through this game with some degree of elegance. I does however require you to think, plan, plot and go about encounters in a smart way from time to time.

I'm going to refrain from posting anymore on this because I am highly opinionated on this subject and this is just making me froth and wanna scream 'YOUR OPINION IS WRONG AND STUPID'.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them