Author Topic: YES (Homeworld)  (Read 2707 times)

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Well, I don't think he means "arbitrary cap on salvaging." I think he means "AI will respond appropriately to salvage corvettes and blow them up instead of shooting at them for a while and then getting confused."

Maybe a short period in which the target ship can shake off the salvage corvette if it's big enough? I don't know. Either way, there's a lot of ways to make salvettes less OP.

IDK, I really liked the OP salvaging because it impels you to capture everything you possibly can and brings the challenge factor right back up.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Scotty

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I'd rather like it if the enemy ships were slightly less monumentally stupid when confronted with Salvage Corvettes.  Having the game actually be decently challenging to steal everything would be a decent change of pace.  Provided that stealing everything was still possible.

 

Offline Nakura

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Heard about this a while back. Gearbox remastering Homeworld 1 & 2 for Steam. Just another reason to get a gaming computer!

 

Offline Zeether

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While I'm not too much of a fan of Gearbox (Borderlands never clicked with me and they were also involved with the mess that was Colonial Marines) they certainly seem to know what they are doing with this and I hope it turns out good. I'm especially hoping they fixed the stupid "adaptive AI" in 2 that was basically "for every 1 ship you have the AI has 3".

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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If you're referring to the campaign's dynamic difficulty, where starting a mission with a stronger fleet increases your oppoisition, that was present in the original game as well.

If you're not referring to that, I have no idea what you're talking about, because I can guarantee the AI doesn't magically get 3 times the units as you (unless you're playing against Expert difficulty).
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<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Hades

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If you're referring to the campaign's dynamic difficulty, where starting a mission with a stronger fleet increases your oppoisition, that was present in the original game as well.

If you're not referring to that, I have no idea what you're talking about, because I can guarantee the AI doesn't magically get 3 times the units as you (unless you're playing against Expert difficulty).
He is referring to it, and while it was present in the original game, it wasn't nearly as stupidly steep as it was in HW2. It being in the first game to a lesser extent does not excuse its execution in the second game.
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Offline Zeether

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I know they did some patch to alleviate it to some extent, I'd assume the original version of HW2 will be prepatched for that and/or they'll have it done a bit better in the remaster since they were poking around in the source code.

Shame about Cataclysm being left out though.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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If you're referring to the campaign's dynamic difficulty, where starting a mission with a stronger fleet increases your oppoisition, that was present in the original game as well.

This is true, in the same way that both a nickel-iron asteroid and the Earth's core are large collections of iron.

However, there is a clear quantitative difference nvolved.
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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He is referring to it, and while it was present in the original game, it wasn't nearly as stupidly steep as it was in HW2. It being in the first game to a lesser extent does not excuse its execution in the second game.
This is true, in the same way that both a nickel-iron asteroid and the Earth's core are large collections of iron.

However, there is a clear quantitative difference nvolved.
For the sake of clarity, I should mention that I've been replaying the HW2 campaign in anticipation of the remastered edition (and because I rather sheepishly remembered that I've never actually played the campaign without cheating), and I have yet to need to return to the previous mission to retire some ships to tone down the dynamic difficulty. Maybe it's worse without the 1.1 patch; I don't remember, because I haven't played without the 1.1 patch since the first time I installed the game, and I can't actually remember if I played the campaign back then.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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The 1.1 patch fixed the most egregious issues.  Before it, mission 4 is where everyone ran into trouble because if you only scraped through the first three, 4 was nigh-impossible.
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Well, as I remember it, it's not necessarily a difficult game due to the dynamic difficulty (except maybe for the Balcora Gate mission), it's just that the forces involved are ridiculous. Seriously, halfway through the campaign you are left wondering "why don't they throw all these at Hiigara and waste everyone without even needing to resupply". If keep track of your big kills and max out your fleet before the end of each mission, you realise that you waste dozens of battlecruisers and more than twice as many destroyers.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Well, as I remember it, it's not necessarily a difficult game due to the dynamic difficulty (except maybe for the Balcora Gate mission), it's just that the forces involved are ridiculous. Seriously, halfway through the campaign you are left wondering "why don't they throw all these at Hiigara and waste everyone without even needing to resupply". If keep track of your big kills and max out your fleet before the end of each mission, you realise that you waste dozens of battlecruisers and more than twice as many destroyers.
The illogic of the campaign is one of its primary failings; alongside the sheer number of enemy forces (even if you aren't maxing out your unit caps, it's still more than enough to have wiped out the entire population of Hiigara), there's the bizarre strategy of the Vaygr in the aforementioned Balcora Gate mission. "So, you're going to stop me from traveling through the gate, thereby stranding Makaan there with only one of the three Cores, leaving him to die. ...What were you going to gain from this, exactly?"
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline StarSlayer

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To be honest I played HW2 stock when it was released and with the right fleet mix of destroyers and torp frigates I was able to retain local superiority on every mission other than Balcora Gate.  Balcora broke me since I needed to split my fleet resources to defend the nodes while the Vaygr kept throwing battlecruiser task groups at my mothership.  At that point I could no longer leverage positioning and force composition to neutralize numerical superiority and I gave up and played something else.
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Offline redsniper

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I went through so many total fleet turnovers in those later missions just throwing ships at the literally trillions of vaygr battlecruisers. While I understand HW's tecnobabble can explain away building a new fleet so fast, it can't explain how we replace the crews! I surely went through like five Hiigara's worth of people. :doubt:

****ing Balcora gate...
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Offline An4ximandros

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Offline Hobbie

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Was Balcora Gate the one where you had to pop about twenty Battlecruisers if you went in with a full fleet? That mission was ridiculous. Only the Dreadnought kept me alive.
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