[swashmebuckle]

There totally is a high road for celebrating/commemorating his passing and the name of that road is "Phelps in the Afterlife" slash fiction and it's really more of a superhighway.

[Mongoose]

A friend of mine made a great point: I really, really hope there are people waving signs outside his funeral.

"great point"? Sorry I don't agree at all.

Perhaps, but I'm not feeling quite so magnanimous as the great Mr. Takei over this.  Call it a baser instinct, but some mother****ers just deserve a bat upside the head, whether literally or metaphorically.

[Phantom Hoover]

What's the ****ing point? Phelps and his church weren't just used to being hated, they thrived on it. It was their business model, their political validation, the cornerstone of their faith. He and his kin saw the world entirely in shades of hate, and if you really cared about rebuking that you'd leave it to starve away.

[swashmebuckle]

Other than the slash fiction, one good thing that has come from Fred Phelps is this encouraging statement from his (estranged) son.

[Dragon]

Yeah, gotta give it to him, he actually did some good by giving people someone to rally against. Doesn't make him any less of a prick, though, and it's certainly not something he should be thanked for. Good thing his son didn't take after him. WBC will soon die a natural death, just like him, and I just hope we won't forget what intolerance and bigotry can lead to after they're gone. In this case, it's about sexual minorities, but it could happen to any of them.
Also, people are talking about LGBT, but why nobody mentions other minorities? There are many sexual "deviations" (the same category homosexuality fell into not so long ago), of which only two are actually problematic: zoophilia and pedophilia. Instead of adding an ever-increasing string of letters to "LGBT" (it used to be "Gays and lesbians", then LGB, then LGBT...) maybe we should start talking about rights for sexual minorities in general.

[karajorma]

To those that believe they are taking the high road by refusing to celebrate a death, allow me to say:  there are some people whose existence has brought so much misery, pain, and suffering to others that their passing from this Earth is indeed a cause for celebration, much as I would celebrate the end polio, HIV, or any other source of suffering.  Phelps and his ilk belong firmly in that category.

He also was a black civil rights campaigner in Kansas in the 1960 and 1970's. I can't imagine how hard it must have been to stand up for black civil rights in the deep south during the 60's but I very much doubt it was easy. If you're going to try to claim that the world would have been better off without him, it's worth remembering that at one point he might have been a decent man.

[Dragon]

At one point, yes. But it is less important who he was back then, compared to who he had become now. If anything, we (well, those who were alive at the time, that is ) should've been grieving when he turned from civil right activist into a WBC nut. The world would've probably been better off without most of his life after the 70s, and what he did as a civil right activist was quickly overshadowed by what he did in WBC. Just as it's possible to redeem bad deeds with the good, it's certainly possible to overshadow good deeds with the bad, which is what he have done. While it might be debatable if it'd be better if he never existed, the world is certainly better off with him gone now.

[karajorma]

Is it? WBC arguably advances gay rights by being so completely indefensible.

[Scotty]

To those that believe they are taking the high road by refusing to celebrate a death, allow me to say:  there are some people whose existence has brought so much misery, pain, and suffering to others that their passing from this Earth is indeed a cause for celebration, much as I would celebrate the end polio, HIV, or any other source of suffering.  Phelps and his ilk belong firmly in that category.

He also was a black civil rights campaigner in Kansas in the 1960 and 1970's. I can't imagine how hard it must have been to stand up for black civil rights in the deep south during the 60's but I very much doubt it was easy. If you're going to try to claim that the world would have been better off without him, it's worth remembering that at one point he might have been a decent man.

Let me start off by agreeing with this post.

Let me continue by mentioning that Kansas is not "the deep south".  It's the geographic center of both the United States and the entire North American continent.

[Charismatic]

You guys are all super tolerant of all religions and non religion; yet despise this guy and his family for their beliefs, right or wrong. Cant pick and choose.

[Scotty]

We're intolerant of intolerance.  If you don't see why this particular brand of beliefs is exempt from that super tolerance then this isn't the thread for you.

[watsisname]

I despise his beliefs on homosexuality, but that is not why I despised him.  I despised him because of the way he acted on his beliefs, which was incredibly hurtful to a group of people who are already having a difficult enough time as it is.

[bigchunk1]

Everyone dies, god's vindiction is clumsy.

[karajorma]

No matter what he believed about homosexuals, that doesn't give him the right to protest at funerals. That has **** all to do with his beliefs and everything to do with attention whoring.

[deathspeed]

It's going to happen anyway (although, thanks to the WBC, there are now laws preventing this).

From what I understand, only if he is buried in a national cemetery.

Actually, as a direct response to the tactics of WBC, some states (including mine) have passed laws restricting funeral protests.  They can still protest, but are restricted as to time and distance from the funeral procession.

Well, since when Christianity taught people to embrace hatred?

Exactly; this man was not a Christian even if he believed he was - I think he may be surprised when Jesus says "I do not know you."  The Bible, especially the New Testament, teaches that God loves everyone, including people who practice homosexuality, those who lust or covet or lie or steal or murder or any greater or lesser sin.  And yes, even Fred Phelps.  We are all sinners, but God loves us all anyway, even those who do not believe in him or who profane His name.  "Love the sinner; hate the sin."  But it also teaches that those who intentionally lead people astray in God's name, such as with a message of hatred and intolerance under the guise of "Christianity," will be judged especially harshly after their worldly death.  His actions and hypocrisy give true Christianity a bad rep, because many, many people have not been taught the difference.

 

[Flipside]

You guys are all super tolerant of all religions and non religion; yet despise this guy and his family for their beliefs, right or wrong. Cant pick and choose.

Even if the first sentence were true, the second certainly isn't.

[MP-Ryan]

To those that believe they are taking the high road by refusing to celebrate a death, allow me to say:  there are some people whose existence has brought so much misery, pain, and suffering to others that their passing from this Earth is indeed a cause for celebration, much as I would celebrate the end polio, HIV, or any other source of suffering.  Phelps and his ilk belong firmly in that category.

He also was a black civil rights campaigner in Kansas in the 1960 and 1970's. I can't imagine how hard it must have been to stand up for black civil rights in the deep south during the 60's but I very much doubt it was easy. If you're going to try to claim that the world would have been better off without him, it's worth remembering that at one point he might have been a decent man.

One set of good deeds does not wipe away decades of ill.  He was also disbarred for unethical conduct toward witnesses by abusing his power as an officer of the court.  The fact that he ended up briefly on the right side of history before launching a crusade on the wrong does not absolve him.

Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler (Godwin'd!) also did some good deeds in their own countries; yet, are you prepared to argue the world would not have been better off without them?

It's also worth pointing out that I was not saying the world would have necessarily been better off without Phelps in my earlier post (though that is a premise I agree with, at least post-1980), but rather that the passing of anything or anyone who causes so much suffering to so many IS a cause for celebration.

[SypheDMar]

Sorry HLP. As much as I'd like to do the right thing, I'm celebrating his death. Hopefully, the rest of his family realizes that their beliefs are wrong like his granddaughters (aka the Good Westboros).

Reference:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/10/29/241643924/we-hurt-a-lot-of-people-westboro-pastors-granddaughter-says

[Luis Dias]

I don't think any comparison to Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot is apt in any meaningful way, even if in hyperbole. Yes, that guy was an annoyance, but has he killed anyone? Is he a mass murderer? Then why are we comparing him with people directly responsible for the deaths of millions and dozens of millions of people and much much greater suffering than those numbers imply?

[karajorma]

One set of good deeds does not wipe away decades of ill.  He was also disbarred for unethical conduct toward witnesses by abusing his power as an officer of the court.  The fact that he ended up briefly on the right side of history before launching a crusade on the wrong does not absolve him.

Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler (Godwin'd!) also did some good deeds in their own countries; yet, are you prepared to argue the world would not have been better off without them?

It's also worth pointing out that I was not saying the world would have necessarily been better off without Phelps in my earlier post (though that is a premise I agree with, at least post-1980), but rather that the passing of anything or anyone who causes so much suffering to so many IS a cause for celebration.

As others have also pointed out, even if he wanted to do harm, Phelps probably actually did more good for the LGBT community than harm. He was such a cartoonish villain that he made everyone else who was anti-gay look like fools too.