Author Topic: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia  (Read 5734 times)

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Offline Lorric

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Offline S-99

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
If Saudis consider atheists terrorists now, does it mean they will also start to fund atheist organisations?
A good saudi is a muslim saudi, and a good saudi arabia is an izlam saudi arabia. Yes possibly they might perhaps for the fun thought of retarded hypocriticality.

You do bring up a good point though. If atheists are labeled as terrorists. Then that means you can of course label atheist organizations as terroristic. Atheists really really don't want to be likened to terrorists.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
And the military hardware they can sell them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/02/14/saudi-arabia-canada-military_n_4790626.html
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/19/bae-typhoon-jet-deal-saudi-prince-charles
Yeah, that too. Also, I wonder, who exactly is responsible for those decisions? Since Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, I'd suspect the Sultan is at least partially to blame, but I don't think he's making all those decisions personally (though he certainly does sign this crap). Perhaps his successor (generally considered liberal, for a Saud, and notably not too corrupt) will be better...

  

Offline The E

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
No, Dragon, the Monarch is entirely to blame for this. Absolute authority means absolute responsibility, and decisions like these are the reason why western countries got rid of the old aristocracies, or relegated them to tabloid fodder.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
I'm not denying that it isn't Sultan's fault. I worded it wrong in the previous post. He signed it, and that's why he's responsible for it. He's been criticized for doing things like that before, BTW (and I'm not particularly fond of him). The question is, who actually came up with that idea? I wonder about which of his advisers actually wrote this and gave it for him to sign. While it has no bearing on how the situation would look under the current Sultan, it might give us some insight whether this stupid edict is gonna be thrown out under his successor (along with the guy who proposed it, as it often happens), or if it's gonna stay. Sultan is responsible for all that happens under him, but he's not El Presidente from Tropico, and does not micromanage everything himself. Internal politics within the court are a thing, too, and also influence the monarchy's politics. Here, it probably depends whether the minister who proposed it counts among the allies of the currently designated successor. If he doesn't, there's hope for Saudi Arabia yet.

Also, the problem with that particular monarchy is that it's essentially a bunch of desert farmers who suddenly got rich on oil. They say that when a rich man becomes poor, he becomes a sheep, but then a poor man becomes rich, he becomes a wolf. The latter case is essentially what is happening here, with corruption galore, excessive spending, noveau riche "style" and all signs that show that those people have no idea what to do with the amount of money they have. And of course, no amount of money can buy one out of small-village mentality and bigotry. Which is why we have Wahhabism, a rather uninspired, short-sighted, strict and literal interpretation of Islam. They're essentially a 1st world country with 3rd world mentality. Those problems are not exclusive to them, and not really correlated with them being a monarchy. In fact, I'm pretty convinced that if they were a democracy, things would be just as bad, and with no hope for a change, to boot (whereas now, after the current Sultan dies, it seems that we'll get someone much better).

Well, not that it all matters to businessmen. As long as they don't declare oil buyers and weapon sellers terrorists, the world isn't gonna care. There will be some token uproar from various freedom movements over the world, and that's all. Shi'a Muslims are probably gonna be furious (rightfully so), but it's not like anyone in the West will listen to them, since in popular opinion, Muslim=terrorist anyway. And it's not like any country in the Muslim world can exert pressure on Saudi Arabia, in fact, it usually works the other way. This is gonna be a problem for Muslims in general, though, since Mekka and Medina both happen to be in Saudi Arabia, and that new law means they pretty much could pick any pilgrim out and arrest him/her on the spot.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
Brief tangent: Is it "sultan" or "king"? The [english translation of] the law in the OP mentions "kingdom", but... idk, which is it?

Enough "blame", let's talk fixes. What do?

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
what do? Say "Oh dear" and get on with your life.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
Brief tangent: Is it "sultan" or "king"? The [english translation of] the law in the OP mentions "kingdom", but... idk, which is it?
A king. I just checked. I feel a bit embarrassed now, as a monarchist, I should be the one to know those things. Oh, and I suppose now I'm a terrorist squared. :) I'm not only an atheist, but also mixed up titles of Sultan and King, which are not quite the same thing, and this is probably disrespectful. Should probably send them some C^2-16 (or maybe lay off mathematics... :)).

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
@Luis: seriously?

We can't just say "it's somebody else's problem" every time this happens, because sooner or later it's going to be our governments that are doing it. And there are plenty of choices between "grab a plane ticket and a rifle" and "do absolutely nothing". For example, calling for the UN to impose meaningful, targeted sanctions.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
TBH, I'm not afraid of this particular thing spreading to other Arab countries, much less the whole world. It's another achievement of Wahhabist BS, and they're considered to be missing the point even by other Sunni.
UN can't really do much in that case, I'm afraid. Heck, a good part of the Saudi populace is probably happy about this, because small-minded villagers are just like that (and no matter how much money they have, the majority in SA still has the mentality of such villagers). Perhaps someone could,let's  say, "accelerate the country's motion through the line of succession", but I don't think it's likely.
Or we could just form a brigade out of all terrorists created by this new law. By my estimates, if everyone brought a gun and some explosives (perhaps also donate some money for AA/AT missiles), we'd conquer Saudi Arabia in the name of freedom, justice and The Flying Spaghetti monster in no time. :)

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
@Luis: seriously?

We can't just say "it's somebody else's problem" every time this happens, because sooner or later it's going to be our governments that are doing it. And there are plenty of choices between "grab a plane ticket and a rifle" and "do absolutely nothing". For example, calling for the UN to impose meaningful, targeted sanctions.

I say you are probably ignorant of your limits. The UN in these things are trapped by the existence of many muslim countries who would veto any attempt like this without even looking at it, although I am well aware of the 2011 breakthrough resolution concerning blasphemy laws in the UN. It is well know the lobbying capacity of Saudi Arabia in all these discussions, who even managed to get their OIC "commended" while they were doing despicable work regarding this issue (and still are).

So, be my guest and continue the conversation, I think that's the most we can do honestly. Saudis will continue doing the ****ty things they are doing until oil is no longer the world's prime commodity. That time will be the game-changer in all of this, but we still have to wait decades. I expect little to change in Saudi Arabia until then (unless there's some kind of shadow government preparing a big ass reform when the king dies or something that I am not aware).

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
Mmm... Wait, veto? Isn't that only the security council?

Does the UNHRC have to get approval from the main governing body when it says "that's a violation"?

 

Offline Polpolion

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
Mmm... Wait, veto? Isn't that only the security council?

Not only that but only the permanent SC members have veto power. And this is hardly a matter of security. UN aside, Saudi Arabia has a lot to lose with their international respect, which is the only reason any of their poor choices have been reversed in the past.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Pretty much all of us are now officially terrorists in Saudi Arabia
It's hardly limited to Saudi Arabia. If international respect (and public respect in general) and such wasn't a factor, the world would've been a much worse place. Saudis can get away with all this precisely because the world doesn't care about what they do to their own citizens, but any attempt at enforcing their bigotry on foreigners would quickly draw everyone's ire. Noticed how UAE and their treatment of rape victims only got any attention when a Norwegian woman was raped there? As long as the populace puts up with that and doesn't rise up in arms (unlikely, as I said, narrow minded ones are most likely fine with it, smart ones are too scared to complain), it's unlikely that UN, or anyone, will ever do anything about any of it.

Also, keep in mind that Saudi Arabia is enormously corrupt. This new law will probably be a new source of extorting bribes out of people, and nobody rich will ever suffer because of it. In there, you could be an atheist nudist with a taste for pork, but if you pay the right people the right sum, they'd find you've been going to the Mosque since before you were born, you've memorized Koran and have been to Mekka and Medina at least once per year. That's how things work in Saudi Arabia, and in most countries this corrupt. In practice, a terrorist would be someone who doesn't want to pay a bribe, or someone who wants to mess with the political system that enables the corruption to continue.