[General Battuta]

(like: it is expensive, doesn't deter crime, suffers from absurd racial bias, and has an unacceptable false positive rate)

(much like predator drones lol)

[General Battuta]

(and barack obama WOW ZING)

[Dragon]

(the American death penalty is a ****ty system that does not work in any respect, even the most basic, and coming up with laughably elaborate mechanical systems to execute people in flashy cool ways will not solve any of its real problems)

Indeed. That's why they shouldn't bother with lethal injection, either. Basic firing squad works better, so does hanging. The former is even still an option somewhere (don't remember where) when lethal injection is unavailable. And even if they somehow do miss, there's always an option of firing again. That mean suffering of 3-7 seconds (I can cycle a good rifle that quickly, at least. Aiming from a stand is also pretty quick), as opposed to minutes from a lethal injection gone wrong, or from a failed electrocution. I'm not sure about the status of hanging as a death penalty, but it's an even better, more reliable option than firing squad.

As for the other problems, they run far deeper than just a matter of death penalty (though financial argument is a valid one, it's not like anyone ever listened to those unless they get the cut of the savings...).

[Phantom Hoover]

things that work far better than any of the above: not having a death penalty at all

[Grizzly]

hydraulic piston through the head, or that bolt thing they use on cows.

Ever since I have seen "no country for old men"...
In all honesty though, that is probably quite a good way.

[Herra Tohtori]

Death penalty is a fundamentally flawed system even if it worked optimally.

Apart from abolishing it entirely (which is what any sane justice system would do), there's this:



(sorry about the spoilers)

[Phantom Hoover]

hydraulic piston through the head, or that bolt thing they use on cows.

Ever since I have seen "no country for old men"...
In all honesty though, that is probably quite a good way.

It's no better than a gun, obviously. Worse, even, those things are made specifically to stun; killing humans is a side-effect.

[Aardwolf]

So the 'civilized' consensus seems to be that mandatory death is bad. What about mandatory life?

[Nuke]

I'll just leave this here.

no photos? much depressing.

[Herra Tohtori]

So the 'civilized' consensus seems to be that mandatory death is bad. What about mandatory life?

The problem is determining whether a person's mental health is sufficient to allow them to make such a decision. This is problematic because the desire to end one's life is a common symptom of many mental illnesses and, in some cases, defined as a mental illness itself (suicidal behaviour).

[jr2]

I think the point of death by firing squad is, you're not likely to have five to ten marksmen miss. Make them semi-auto (so the rifle cycles the next round in for you, not to be confused with full-auto, which will kick the weapon up as it repeats the cycle of fire) and if they all miss you won't suffer for long. Have five aim for the T-box and five aim for the heart.

E: five, not give. Darn mobile keyboard

[Herra Tohtori]

Right, that. Firing squad is a terrible idea, people can survive some pretty gruesome gunshot wounds in horrible agony.


In fact I think if someone really wanted to figure out a completely certain way to kill someone nearly instantaneously (t<perception lag) is to make them wear an implosion helmet filled with enough explosives to vapourize their head, but then you can probably get pretty much identical results simply by decapitating a person (most reliably with a guillotine).

Thing is, the problem of figuring out a reliable "humane" method of killing a person (which is a contradiction in itself) can be avoided by simply not having a death penalty in the first place, AND as a bonus it also deals with the inherent issues in death penalty rather than just addressing the method of execution, so to speak.

[jr2]

Hmm, maybe this will be helpful to explain, T-box means hitting anywhere on the T you can draw between the eyes and down the nose. Instant death.  Also, taking out the heart is pretty much instant. As well, if you hit a target twice in under a second within an inch of the first shot, the shock alone is very likely to kill them. At least that's what I was taught. So, five aiming for T-box and five for heart should equal instant death.

 Regarding elimination of death penalty, well, there ate plenty of things that become a whole lot less worthwhile when death is a possible outcome. Elimination of witnesses or people trying to prevent the crime you are committing might make it less likely you get caught, but if it also means you will die if you do get caught, maybe you will think twice.

http://www.theusmarines.com/recruits-prepare-for-combat/

A shot inside the T-box on the head is an instant kill because that’s where the brain-housing group is located,” said Solando. “A chest shot critically damages the heart and lungs

[Herra Tohtori]

Regarding elimination of death penalty, well, there ate plenty of things that become a whole lot less worthwhile when death is a possible outcome. Elimination of witnesses or people trying to prevent the crime you are committing might make it less likely you get caught, but if it also means you will die if you do get caught, maybe you will think twice.

Except this is pretty much proven to be a fallacy, basically because people who commit crimes think they won't get caught.

I'm sure the whole explanation is longer and involves lots of statistics but there is no proof whatsoever that death penalty acts as a deterrent to committing crimes, and in fact there is a correlation between high homicide rates and death penalty (although this doesn't necessarily mean that death penalty promotes murder, it just means that death penalty is not an effective deterrent).


By the way, if no one can hear them scream, do they still suffer?

[MP-Ryan]

To reiterate from the last time this came up, I'll support the death penalty when:

1.  We are absolutely certain of the actual guilt of the sentenced person and no innocent people are ever sentenced to death;
2.  Death sentences are ultimately cheaper to carry out than life in prison; and,
3.  It is used only in the most extreme circumstances and rarely.

Death penalties the world over never meet all three of those criteria simultaneously.  Which is why I agree with battuta - it's laughable to discuss the most efficient way to carry out the death penalty when there is so much wrong with the systems that lead to it in the first place.

[InsaneBaron]

To reiterate from the last time this came up, I'll support the death penalty when:

1.  We are absolutely certain of the actual guilt of the sentenced person and no innocent people are ever sentenced to death;
2.  Death sentences are ultimately cheaper to carry out than life in prison; and,
3.  It is used only in the most extreme circumstances and rarely.

Death penalties the world over never meet all three of those criteria simultaneously.  Which is why I agree with battuta - it's laughable to discuss the most efficient way to carry out the death penalty when there is so much wrong with the systems that lead to it in the first place.

I'd agree that this is a pretty good criteria, which is part of the reason I'd like to see America's death penalty ended (there are a lot of things in America that I'd like to see ended). However, until we reach the point where it can be abolished (and that point is certainly reachable), moving from more painful to less painful methods is at least a step in the right direction. In fact, movements like these are arguably progress towards the abolition of the death penalty, in that they are a recognition of the rights of the criminal.

(and barack obama WOW ZING)

[The E]

However, until we reach the point where it can be abolished (and that point is certainly reachable), moving from more painful to less painful methods is at least a step in the right direction.

It really isn't, IMHO. Making the death penalty more acceptable doesn't make it more efficient, or more effective. Why change it, when the only effective change is to abolish it completely? Why not skip the intermediate steps and move directly to the abolishing? Or is the desire for dead criminals too strong, the need to sacrifice people on the altar of some imagined justice too pressing to do so?

[Luis Dias]

To reiterate from the last time this came up, I'll support the death penalty when:

1.  We are absolutely certain of the actual guilt of the sentenced person and no innocent people are ever sentenced to death;
2.  Death sentences are ultimately cheaper to carry out than life in prison; and,
3.  It is used only in the most extreme circumstances and rarely.

Death penalties the world over never meet all three of those criteria simultaneously.  Which is why I agree with battuta - it's laughable to discuss the most efficient way to carry out the death penalty when there is so much wrong with the systems that lead to it in the first place.

I'm with MP on this, but with a slight difference. I think the death penalty should exist everywhere in the legal system as an option, but that in practical terms, the criteria to reach it was so hard to get that effectively no one would actually be condemned to it!

[The E]

I'm with MP on this, but with a slight difference. I think the death penalty should exist everywhere in the legal system as an option, but that in practical terms, the criteria to reach it was so hard to get that effectively no one would actually be condemned to it!

I'm curious as to what the point of this would be. If the bar is set so high as to be unattainable, why even have it on the books? Why leave that option open?

[Luis Dias]

I like the idea of the death penalty. In theory. I just hate it when in real life. In praxis. So I think this system would be perfect for me. Theoretically possible, always present in the minds of people, but never actually doing it. Much like overall freedom. I enjoy having the freedom to say stupid ****, do stupid ****, etc., but I like even more the idea of not actually doing it, ever. I like that tension, what can I say!