Author Topic: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)  (Read 12526 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
If you're insulted you need to explain why I'm wrong, but then your explanation why you support firing squads is factually incorrect. Reread my last post, acknowledge what I said there, and update your explanation. Your stumbling point is the belief that there are no more effective and humane methods of execution. This is odd, since your belief has been corrected by multiple people multiple times in this thread alone.

Your antidemocratic argument was predicated on the belief that people will never mobilize to achieve this end. That's demonstrably wrong. You're moving the goalposts to 'some people will not mobilize to achieve this end', which is a different argument: you're now claiming it's hard, rather than impossible, which torpedoes your entire original claim, that no democratic process could effectively ban the death penalty and that your proposal for a raft of gradual confinement legislation was less drastic. 'Good luck with that', you say, and yet apparently good luck isn't necessary: just political action and process.

Your love of the firing squad and your hatred of democracy are motivated by the same fundamental illusion: a dream that you can replace complexity with simplicity, a simplicity that exists in your own mind but would tarnish and fail when subjected to the ultimate litmus—implementation.

 
Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
I really wonder how Dragon thinks the death penalty was abolished in every developed democracy but America and Japan.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
I can see we're all pretty passionate about this subject, but let's all take it down a notch right now.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
Debating the intellectual problems of the topic is a good notch and it's one I'd like the conversation to stay at. Claims that democratic states cannot effectively abolish the death penalty must confront the fact that abolitionism is globally endemic in developed democracies, so I think some pretty strong criticism is to be expected.

 

Offline Zacam

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
Yes, remember to work on the issue, not the people presenting or participating in it.

The topic received a reported post. At the moment, I'm content to observe, but there are some fairly fine lines here between discussion of the issue vs. against the people involved, so try to keep directly personalized assumptions of the other to a minimum please.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
I trust you folks to adjudicate reports and determine what needs action. I'm sure you'll bear in mind that discussing someone's publicly espoused personal beliefs is not the same as discussing their merits as a person. Being an overt monarchist or totalitarian in a venue like this is going to draw a lot of critique, and that critique is fair.

 

Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
There is no treason in peacetime.

This is just flat-out wrong.

Correct (on Phantom Hoover's part). There's plenty of possibility for treason in peacetime. The military has legitimate reasons to keep its technology and tactical abilities classified with the goal of keeping the country safe. Even in peacetime a country still has enemies. And the US hasn't really been "at peace" since 9/11 (longer than that depending how you count it).
Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move." - Captain America

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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
Definitions, people. It's called sedition in peacetime.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
what ever you call it, I can accept some legitimacy to calling things like this "not peace".

{TIL: Timothy McVeigh died three months to the day before 9/11, by lethal injection...}
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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
Definitions, people. It's called sedition in peacetime.

This is also wrong! I don't know where you people are getting your definitions from, but I'm looking at Wikipedia for 5 minutes and getting way more nuanced answers than these hard-and-fast ones you're giving.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

  

Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
Definitions, people. It's called sedition in peacetime.

This is also wrong! I don't know where you people are getting your definitions from, but I'm looking at Wikipedia for 5 minutes and getting way more nuanced answers than these hard-and-fast ones you're giving.

1. One can still commit treason in peacetime.
2. Sedition can still be a very serious crime.
3. Again, the US isn't really at peace.
Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move." - Captain America

InsaneBaron's Fun-to-Read Reviews!
Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius - Silent Threat: Reborn - Operation Templar - Sync, Transcend, Windmills - The Antagonist - Inferno, Inferno: Alliance

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
No protracted war can fail to endanger the freedom of a democratic country. Not indeed that after every victory it is to be apprehended that the victorious generals will possess themselves by force of the supreme power, after the manner of Sulla and Caesar; the danger is of another kind. War does not always give over democratic communities to military government, but it must invariably and immeasurably increase the powers of civil government; it must almost compulsorily concentrate the direction of all men and the management of all things in the hands of the administration. If it does not lead to despotism by sudden violence, it prepares men for it more gently by their habits. All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and the shortest means to accomplish it. This is the first axiom of the science.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
hey dontchaknow its ****ing rude not to credit the author of that and just copypaste it like there's no tomorrow? Just wait til mr Alexis knows about this, your writing career is over man just gone poooof.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tennessee at it again (on electic chairs)
It's me. I'm Alexis de Tocqueville