Author Topic: A question about heat seekers  (Read 1365 times)

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A question about heat seekers
In multiple points in both retail campaigns and a ton of fan-made ones you are told to take heat seekers in missions where you can't reliably target your enemies. But heat seekers(at least the retail ones, I know a lot of modded missiles can track without having a target) simply do not work if you don't have  a target, they'll just fly in a straight line.
Is this a new thing or have they always behaved like that? Because it does seem a bit daft for the game to outright lie to you.

Sorry if this is a known issue already, but I'd really like some clarification.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Online Colonol Dekker

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Re: A question about heat seekers
Clarifiaction about the definitions of aspect-lock and heatseeker?
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: A question about heat seekers
In multiple points in both retail campaigns and a ton of fan-made ones you are told to take heat seekers in missions where you can't reliably target your enemies. But heat seekers(at least the retail ones, I know a lot of modded missiles can track without having a target) simply do not work if you don't have  a target, they'll just fly in a straight line.
If you're referring to missions like "As Lightning Fall", you're told to avoid aspect seekers because you won't be able to keep an enemy targeted long enough to obtain lock, not because heatseekers can home in without a target. As long as you're not actively suffering EMP effects, you can target an enemy and fire heat-seeking missiles at it.
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<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
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<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
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Re: A question about heat seekers
Clarifiaction about the definitions of aspect-lock and heatseeker?
No, I know perfectly well what the difference is. It just seems odd that the game would recommend heatseekers when your targeting simply won't work. As Lighting Fall may not be a good example because you are technically able to target(though I still think there's way too much EMP to reliably use heat seekers), just not long enough to get an aspect lock, but something like "The Last Hurrah" from STR. I know STR is fanmade, but it made me think that at some point in time heat seekers did in fact work without a target. Did one of the biggest projects on HLP really overlook the fact that heat seekers don't work without a target?
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Online Colonol Dekker

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Re: A question about heat seekers
Heat seekers have always worked without a target in Freespace.

Mission one, guard the Orff. Mx-50 spam ftw.

edit-spelling
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 10:47:39 am by Dekker »
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Re: A question about heat seekers
Huh. I did not know that, as I've only ever played The Port. Well, thanks for clearing that up for me.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

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Re: A question about heat seekers
I berlieve the demo's freely available still. That may shed some light too.

Don't worry about it. Try it with Rockeyes on Surrender Bellisarius.

(That corvette always makes me think of quantumn leap)
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: A question about heat seekers
I just loaded up a mission, disabled targeting, and spammed some Darts...they seem to track okay. They'll chase countermeasures happily, but they definitely seek.

 
Re: A question about heat seekers
I'm pretty sure darts fall under the category of modded missiles, and I already mentioned that some of them work without acquiring a target. The Wildfires in WoD work without a lock too. Now, If you can get heat seekers in FSport or FS2 to track without a target, then It's definitely a problem on my end.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: A question about heat seekers
It's the same seeking mechanism. Try a slightly off-angle attack on a target that won't launch countermeasures, like a cargo container.

 
Re: A question about heat seekers
Stationary targets are the only things you even get to shoot in the first 4 minutes of "The last Hurrah".
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: A question about heat seekers
Hmm... there is an FSO only weapon flag called "untargeted heatseeker"; and I thought that flag allowed heat-seekers to home without an initial target.  So now I'm curious to know exactly what the difference is between this and normal heatseekers.
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: A question about heat seekers
I believe the default behavior was the track-without-lock one.  The flag was created to disable this behavior selectively.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: A question about heat seekers
I was sure that stock Rockeyes could track without a target but now I don't even know!

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: A question about heat seekers
Untargeted Rockeyes definitely home in retail.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
Re: A question about heat seekers
I've been playing around with it a bit more and they do home in without a target, though only when they feel like it. Most of the time they just fly straight like dumbfires, and sometimes they even home in some random target 1000m away from whatever is right in your reticle. Not sure if this is a personal or a global error though.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: A question about heat seekers
In Mystery of the Trinity, a neat bit of trivia is that the Rockeye tracking radius is actually larger than your ship radar radius. Firing rockeyes in all directions (with cheats, obviously) and seeing if they lock to anything will let you know the direction of the next incoming wing of dragons before they show up on radar.

Edit: ah ****, totally didn't read the date of last post :s