[General Battuta]

Out of respect for Goob's discomfort I won't reproduce the piece of text he redacted, but it is my belief it was as much in line with forum policy and standards as the OP of this thread and far less conceivably harmful to anyone by any realistic moral standard. I have flagged the decision for review.

[Goober5000]

Out of respect for Goob's discomfort I won't reproduce the piece of text he redacted, but it is my belief it was as much in line with forum policy and standards as the OP of this thread and far less conceivably harmful to anyone by any realistic moral standard. I have flagged the decision for review.

Battuta, it was your own post that was flagged for moderation that was the cause of my intervention.

[General Battuta]

I understand. I have flagged your action for review and I am following up with other admins. I understand your perspective, and we may simply have different moral weights here.

I was trying to point out that a thread on the best tactical loadout to kill a criminal is (in my view) more morally hazardous than a thread on, for example, useful day-to-day sex tips. Violence against criminals is sometimes necessary, but it is psychologically harmful and compromising in a way that consensual sex acts aren't.

I don't really want either on HLP - I don't think they're appropriate topics for the forum - so I was making an argument by rhetoric to point out the shaky ground I think this thread stands on. If the argument rubbed you the wrong way, I am genuinely, not-even-facetiously sorry; I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable or unhappy. But I stand by the point. It seems unlikely to me that a sex thread can be seen as more harmful than a techniques for lethal use of force thread.

I'd like to have the original post back so it can be reviewed by multiple authorities. I'm not calling you a monster or anything, and I know we are probably made uncomfortable by different things. (I studied police use of lethal force for six years, so it's not like I can't think about it without collapsing into PTSD, which is perhaps why I want it handled with respect and weight). But I want to push back against your decision here.

[General Battuta]

Shooting people is interesting, don't get me wrong, I think almost everybody here reads and is engaged by military history and war stories. But I guess I am challenging what I see as a double standard grounded in a toxic culture by posing a hypothetical: could we have a thread about techniques for great cunnilingus?

I don't want that thread. But I would like to be able to discuss the possibility of having that thread and the questions it raises without having it red-texted out. What do you think?

(I know some other mod staff have expressed discomfort in the past with any alteration of anybody's posts, so I guess that is worth flagging too.)

[Goober5000]

Battuta, you are taking a violation of the rules -- an objective standard -- and trying to frame it as a difference of opinion with a single admin.  That is an ad-hominem attack of a most insidious variety.

Now you are trying to selectively, privately, recruit several people sympathetic to your position in attempt to overturn a legitimate moderation action.  That is not how you appeal a decision.  You PM the admin involved, you report the post, or you start a thread in the Site Feedback forum.  You have done none of these things.

The original post that you are so concerned about is preserved in its entirety in the Moderation Reports section.  That's where it can be discussed in an open, above-board manner.  That is how disagreements should be discussed.  Not backchanneling in your own private discussions.

If you can't be above board and honest in your dealings on HLP, then you may find yourself facing far more severe moderation than just an edited post.

[General Battuta]

I am trying to post in good faith. I'm sorry it's not coming off that way. I don't agree that there was a violation of the rules, nor that I'm trying some kind of personal end to run overturn a legitimate decision. My understanding has always been that mods don't edit users' posts.

I don't understand how to defuse this belief that I am not being above board and honest. I reported the post in question - as you suggested - PMed an admin NOT involved - as all our past discussions have suggested - and made a public statement. I think I held myself to reasonable standard. But, as last time we disagreed, it feels like you assume there is some covert malice or ill faith on my part, and I don't know how to convince you otherwise.

If the information required to make good decisions is all publicly available, then I'll take some time off, okay? It seems like you feel this is the best step anyway.

[General Battuta]

For public knowledge, this thread was split from http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=87957.0

[Luis Dias]

You two should get a room and solve your issues ASAP for chrissakes.

[karajorma]

Agreed. I'm locking this thread for exactly that reason.