Author Topic: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty  (Read 2712 times)

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Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
Finally got a second, game-orientated tower up and running that a friend gave me a few years ago. Since Steam requires internet, I had to go out and get a second wifi adapter specifically for this tower. When I installed steam, the website for example says:

Install Steam Now
Free 1.5 mb download

Which implies that hey Steam is 1.5 mb

Then you actually run this "Free download" and steam proceeds to install a 128 mb "Update".

Like seriously, what a load of horse****. The front end of this program, is fundamentally a lie. This "free download" is an installer. And this 128 mb update is the actual ****ing program not a ****ing "update".  Why do people put such faith in a program that lies to you right out of the gate?

I wish all humble bundle sales were DRM then I could avoid this program entirely.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
You're upset about 126.5 mb in this day and age.

I think it's being charitable to just tell you to get over it.

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
They're not lying to you, what you are immediately downloading is 1.5 mbs, and using this incredibly silly thing to get upset about as absolute PROOF that Steam is evil is doubly silly.
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
web installers have been a thing for a really long time. i used to hate them. reason being that i used to go months, even years at a time without internet before wifi became a thing. so it was common for me to set aside a large portion of drive space for things i downloaded, in case i ever lost my ability to download things i could still use my computer. web installers ruined that for me. nowadays you can get wifi everywhere and there is little point saving things you download for longer than it takes to install it, especially with how frequently things update in this day and age. i still carry out the practice but on a much smaller scale, i only really archive things that are large and may be useful later on, like service pack installers. so yea, get over it.
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Offline Droid803

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
Nice "I've already decided on my conclusion. Now, what evidence can I find to 'support' it" line of thought.
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Offline zookeeper

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
Yeah, web/online/whatever installers are annoying. Not in themselves, of course, but because they almost always seem to be paired with omission of information about what the real download size is going to be.

 

Offline deathfun

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
Technically, since the website displays system requirements for Steam, they are implying that there is more to it than just a 1.5MB platform

To be more specific:
   

System Requirements

Windows XP, Vista, or 7
512 MB RAM
1 Ghz or faster processor

Intel Mac, OS X version Snow Leopard 10.6.3, or later.
Two-button mouse strongly recommended

1GB HD space (recommended)[/i]
Internet connection (broadband recommended)

They didn't lie about anything. They told you the 1.5MB download of the installer is free (notice how they say "Install Steam Now" rather than "Download Steam Now"). If you're going to complain they aren't upfront about it being an installer... look at the path for the download link where it directs you to an exe named SteamSetup. If that isn't obviously an installer name... well I just don't know anymore

I got that what I'm getting is an installer, which is pretty obvious this day and age. It's also pretty obvious because when was the last time you saw a program that was *only* 1.5MB in size?

Secondly, if steam had put their program on a disc, it'd react the exact same way as an internet installer. You'd pop in the disc, it'd open up an .exe file for the setup (not usually a massive size) and then install the contents on the disc to the directory specified by you

Not really different than downloading an installer which installs the content from a server to a directory on your computer

If you want me to be blatant about how I'm presenting this metaphor: Server with Steam stuff = Content on disc. Installer downloaded = Installer prompt from disc

"No"

 

Offline Zacam

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
They need the Installer portion of it to be as BASIC as possible, depending that many different people could have downloaded it at any point in time, so there could be version skew between the "Downloaded" vs. "Live" versions, so to abrogate that, the Installer is simplified to the bare minimum and then it connects to the service to Update that base installer from there.

You're essential complaint would be like saying that the FSO Installer is a lie, because you're only downloading a simplified Java application that doesn't actually contain FSO or any of the mods and that it's then lying to you about the downloading for getting the mods.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
As someone who is on a very slow connection at home but has access to a much faster connection elsewhere I think that people who only make online installers available and then flat out forget to tell you that this isn't the entire program should be lined up against a wall and shot. And if they do tell you, they should be flogged instead. :p

And that's before we get into the matter of online installers for programs which you're probably going to install on more than one PC.
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Offline Zacam

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
Granted, unlike Steam initially, you can transport the results of the FSO installer from one machine to another very easily.

But if you're on that kind of a connection, why would you be buying a multi-gigabyte game on a digital distribution platform anyway? Never mind the installer, how are you even getting the games?
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[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 
Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
Honestly though I don't think Valve at all deserve their reputation as industry paragons. They've used anti-consumer practices in the past, and in general they put very little effort into providing a good service for customers (as opposed to a good service for Valve to sell games).
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
But if you're on that kind of a connection, why would you be buying a multi-gigabyte game on a digital distribution platform anyway? Never mind the installer, how are you even getting the games?

On GoG it is ridiculously simple to download the game on any PC I have access to which has a fast connection. I don't have to use my actual gaming machine.
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
I'm not terribly fond of Steam, but seriously, this has got to be one of the most anal complaints about it I've ever seen.  One would think the system requirements might have tipped you off about it not being just 1.5MB is size.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
Or, you know. Common Sense.
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Offline zookeeper

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
I'd be surprised if the complaint was indeed that "they cheated me, I thought it'd be 1.5MB but it wasn't", and not the more reasonable "they're stupid for intentionally misrepresenting the download size".

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
I'd be surprised if the complaint was indeed that "they cheated me, I thought it'd be 1.5MB but it wasn't", and not the more reasonable "they're stupid for intentionally misrepresenting the download size".

The point is that both of these are instead varying levels of unreasonable.

 

Offline zookeeper

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
I'd be surprised if the complaint was indeed that "they cheated me, I thought it'd be 1.5MB but it wasn't", and not the more reasonable "they're stupid for intentionally misrepresenting the download size".

The point is that both of these are instead varying levels of unreasonable.

But what's unreasonable about the latter? Sure it's not a big issue, but it doesn't have to be. You could similarly design a website today using frames and marquees and that wouldn't be a big issue either, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to be annoyed by it regardless, because those are just such obviously dumb things to do no matter how low-impact they are.

Blowing one's annoyance completely out of proportion is a different matter entirely, of course.

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
There's what he's talking about:

http://store.steampowered.com/about/

And when you've already had to jump through hoops to get to this point, I can see how that could be annoying.

The bottom line is they're not telling you what they should be telling you. Say what you want about how bad of a thing it is, about how if that space is going to be a problem how are you going to download games, that is very true, but they're being dishonest right out of the gate, and that's not a good way to make a favourable first impression. It makes no sense not to just put the true size of what you're going to be downloading there, like everybody else does.

As zookeeper says:

But what's unreasonable about the latter? Sure it's not a big issue, but it doesn't have to be.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Fundamental Valve Dishonesty
But what's unreasonable about the latter?

The easily available system requirements contradict the fact they are obfuscating the size of the necessary download? That any idiot in this day and age should know nothing is actually 1.5mb?
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