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Offline Scotty

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Interstellar - Review and Discussion
There's not a topic on this in the last two pages, so I'll start one here.

If you have not yet seen this movie and have any love deep in your heart for science fiction, stop reading and go watch it.  There will be some significant spoilers in this topic.  These spoilers will not be marked as such.

And now onto the review.
















Seriously go ****ing watch it already.

I went into this movie expecting the Matthew McConahoweveryouspellit Show.  I was simultaneously disappointed and not disappointed.  Disappointed, because the movie was not the Matthew McConaughey Show in its entirety.  Not disappointed, because holy **** was it leaps and bounds better than anything that could possibly have arisen from the Matthew McConaughey Show.

Anne Hathaway and Matthew McConaughey headline the cast, as you no doubt already know unless you've been living under a rock.  What may have slipped your notice (it certainly slipped mine) is the supporting cast beside these two.  John Lithgow is Cooper's (guess who) father.  Michael Caine (perhaps better known as Alfred) is in charge of the whole project on the ground.  Matt Damon, of all people, plays another scientist on the project (more on him later).  Hands up, who knew Matt Damon was in this movie before stepping into the theater (or spoiling yourselves on this review, you rotten scoundrels)?  Thought so.  Jessica Chastain, notable for her role in Zero Dark Thirty, is also present as a main character.

Before going further, a synopsis.  This will not be spoiled, so this is your very last warning if you haven't seen the movie.

Okay, I lied, this will still be spoilered.

Spoiler:
The film starts on Earth, after a worldwide cataclysm that is only hinted at and never truly explained (both famine and nuclear war are briefly mentioned) has killed billions and left the rest of the world in a state where eking out a tough living amidst constant dust storms and the inevitable decline of humanity is all that's left.  Cooper (McConaughey) is a farmer in such a world, with a background in aerospace engineering and piloting.  A disease that infects crops has forced humanity to abandon nearly all species of vegetation for farming - eventually down to corn and only corn.  As anyone who has seen the trailers can no doubt tell you, humanity is ****ed and everyone knows it.

Cooper's daughter, Murphy (nicknamed Murph) discovers an anomaly in her room that she calls a "ghost".  Books fall off the shelf for no identifiable reason.  At this point, we are already shown that Cooper is still dedicated to the science that the rest of his community has all but abandoned, and tasks Murph to investigate the anomaly and present her findings.  Following a trip into town, a dust storm strikes.  Murph's window is open, and in the falling dust is revealed another anomaly - gravity in her room is abnormal, and the dust lands in a recognizable pattern: binary.  This binary leads Cooper and Murph to a top secret facility in the middle of nowhere that turns out to be NASA (briefly explained to now be a secret government agency).  NASA is working on the project that every trailer made sure that everyone knew about clear as day: an attempt to find new settlements for humanity.  Doctor Brand (Michael Caine) is in charge of the project, his daughter (Anne Hathaway) is a crew member.  Also introduced at this point is an artificial intelligence, TARS, a former security element and current member of the team.

After a good deal of discussion, Cooper is convinced to join the mission as pilot.  What mission, exactly?  A wormhole near Saturn popped up nearly 50 years ago (giving a potential date exercise, along with the vague indication that the wormhole became visible just before the cataclysm), and NASA wants to send an expedition through it to follow up on a series of other (manned) expeditions, now a decade old.  On the other side are several potential habitable worlds, but they must be surveyed and identified.  Mentioned in all this is that the wormhole is artificial, and NASA knows it, and even has a pretty good idea of how it got there and why (and by whom).  The trip to Saturn will take two years.  The trip through the wormhole will take longer.  Cooper tries to say goodbye to his family and promises to return, but a conflict with his daughter leaves them estranged as he drives away.

The team of Cooper, Brand, two additional crew members Doyle and Romily, and TARS launch in a craft called a Ranger (the immediately identifiable craft from the trailers) to a hybrid ship/space station called Endurance.  Already waiting on Endurance are another two crew members: Williams and CASE, another robot.  The Endurance departs for the wormhole, while the crew enters a form of stasis to conserve supplies.  Cooper records and sends a message to his family, and is told that he will be able to receive and send such communication during the trip.

On the other side of the wormhole, three potential candidates emerge out of a dozen manned missions.  All the others indicated that the planet was unsuitable; all the others are dead.  The closest of these candidates is still transmitting, and is revealed to be perilously close to a massive black hole.  To avoid the time dilation of such a phenomenon, the team tries to stay outside the strongest effect of the field, though the planet is caught squarely inside.  Seven years to every hour.  The landing team consists of Cooper, Brand, Doyle, and CASE.  Across the surface is a thin, endless sea, with mountains in the far distance.  Almost immediately, the team discovers the wreckage of the previous expedition.  Moments later they discover that the 'mountains' are actually massive waves - a consequence of the black hole's tidal influence.  Doyle is lost in the rush back to the craft.  Water floods the engines, forcing the crew to wait for them to clear while another wave approaches.  Back on Endurance, they receive the news: It took 23 years for them to land and return, and Williams died waiting for them.  The messages waiting for them from home aren't pretty.

Low on fuel from the 15 year delay, the Endurance now only has enough fuel to visit one of the two other sites.  Brand has an emotional attachment to one of the sites, in the form of being in love with the original expedition member.  She gives an impassioned speech, but is ultimately overruled.  The second planet is one frozen and covered in ice, with a not-quite breathable atmosphere.  They discover and resuscitate the original explorer, Dr. Mann (Matt Damon).  He is ecstatic to see people again for the first time in over 30 years.

During this, Murph discovers that Professor Brand never intended for the crew to return; it's a one way trip, and everyone on Earth is going to die before they succeed.  She doesn't take the news particularly well, and blames Cooper for it, believing he knew all along.

The crew (consisting of Romily [aged 23 years], Brand, Cooper, TARS, and CASE) set up camp, and Dr. Mann takes Cooper on a trip to show him the proposed landing site for follow up colonization.  On the way, he attacks Cooper.  A struggle follows, during which Mann reveals he faked the readings in order to call for a rescue.  He damages Cooper's air supply and abandons him there, heading back to the camp to steal the Ranger and maroon them.  Romily is killed in an explosion - a trap set by Mann.  Cooper, Brand, TARS and CASE engage in quick pursuit in one of Endurance's other craft on the surface, but Mann beats them back to the station and tries to dock.  TARS, not trusting Mann, had disabled the autopilot docking, and Mann attempts to do so manually.  He fails spectacularly, and dies in the resultant explosion that sends Endurance spinning out of control.

With a lot of luck and reckless piloting, Cooper manages to dock with Endurance and stabilizes the station, but it is now on a direct course for the black hole and the attempt has cost them valuable fuel.  A last ditch effort to reach the last planet sends them perilously close to the event horizon - and TARS and Cooper sacrifice themselves to allow Brand and CASE to finish the mission.

Murph returns home to try and convince her brother to abandon the failing farm and to seek medical help for his family's lung disease.  He's already lost one son, and his second is not healthy.  The two clash and in desperation Murph sets fire to the crops in order to sneak his family out from underneath him.  She visits her room one last time, trying to figure out what the "ghost" really was.

Inside the event horizon, Cooper discovers that it is an impossible convergence of time and space through which he can influence objects in the past through gravity - and that the black hole (or at least its interior) were constructed in order for him to relay information back to Earth.  He discovers that he is the "ghost", and sends a message that includes information vital to solving the crisis on Earth.  Murph intuits that the ghost is her father, and the two reconcile across 50 years of time and unimaginable distance.  She and her brother also reconcile.  The construct inside the black hole collapses, and Cooper experiences time and space in a manner reminiscent of 2001, before he appears over Saturn and is recovered.

Cooper awakens in a hospital, aboard an artificial habitat orbiting Saturn, where he discovers that humanity has survived and even thrived.  TARS was also recovered, and Cooper rebuilds him while he waits for Murph, now in her 80s, to arrive.  The two reconcile in person at long last while Murph is on her deathbed.  The film concludes with Cooper taking a new type of Ranger back through the wormhole looking for Brand.  Cut to credits.

End spoiler.  There will still be spoilers hereafter, but they are unmarked.

The Good:

Matthew McConaughey.  He sold every scene he was in and was quite frankly spectacular.  You can see Cooper's character going through stages of determination to save his children, devastation that they believe he abandoned them, grief and guilt, and then desperation and euphoria as he communicates across time and space.

Special Effects.  Welcome back, practical effects.  A good bit of the camera work was done from the perspective of a camera mounted on the hull of the Ranger or Lander, and the surfaces to which the camera is attached is visibly real which lends a lot of credibility even to the fantastic backdrops those props are frequently put up against.  The effects for the black hole and the wormhole were visually impressive and feel like they'll hold up as the film ages.

Music.  It's Hans Zimmer, so it's very recognizable as his work.  There are a lot of parallels with 2001: A Space Odyssey for the soundtrack.  Several of the moments in space are totally silent, and in other places sustained high strings ratchets up the tension considerably.  It's a suitably grandiose sound for a movie about traveling through a wormhole into another galaxy.  Ol' Hans apparently had a pretty massive hard-on for organ sounds this time, though, so prepare for that one.  I personally liked it, but I can see how it'd be a bit grating.

Characters.  TARS and CASE are robots, but they come off as two of the most human members of the crew.  Their banter is amusing when it should be and serious when it should be.  Plus the robots are just cool designs.  They also don't go haywire, which was a delightful subversion of that tired old trope.  TARS at times acts as the exposition, particularly in the black hole.  The two also interact well even if they're hardly ever on screen at the same time.  One particular exchange struck me as I was watching.

Cooper: You sure don't talk much, CASE.
CASE: TARS talks enough for both of us.

Simple, witty banter, but it goes a long way to making them feel like real characters instead of props that happen to move and talk.  Of the two, TARS gets more lines and more characterization, but CASE is not neglected.

Foreshadowing.  Dr. Mann is visibly excited to see people.  So excited that it's kinda creepy.  The way he talks and about what gives the idea that he has a couple screws loose.  Then he attacks Cooper and tries to maroon the crew in order to rescue himself.  There's nothing outright wrong about him before the actual attack, but the movie does well to subtly paint him as a little bit unstable and desperate.  Additionally, "They".  Murph's ghost, the beings who created the wormhole, shake hands with Brand.  We get little hints through the movie about who they are - enough that I was able to pick up on what was going on well before the actual reveal - but nothing outright, and it was subtle enough to that point that I blame my realization on being genre savvy and not anything in the movie.

Time.  Forget interstellar travel, this is what the movie is actually about.  It does a great job of demonstrating just how long space travel takes.  Two years from Earth to Saturn, 23 years on the ocean planet, and another 50 years on the black hole slingshot.  The videos from home fill in the gaps and reconcile how it doesn't feel like the crew just spent 23 years accomplishing what amounts to **** all.  All told, Interstellar takes about three hours from start to finish, and more than a couple minutes of that feels like it could have been cut.  I'm interested to see how the director's cut/extended edition comes out, because I'm honestly wondering what didn't make it.

The Bad:

Whoever did the sound mixing.  This movie is loud.  Really loud.  At times the music drowns out the lines being spoken, which is a pretty significant problem for any movie, let alone one that's as packed as this one.

The Ugly:

I'm not 100% sure that Cooper going back through the wormhole to find Brand was the best way to end the movie.  That said, it was a movie about hope, and if in a movie about hope your protagonist is crushed into oblivion in a black hole that's not very hopeful, is it?  The ending thematically fit, but I guess I just have a hard-on for dead protagonists.

Hans Zimmer is... well, Hans Zimmer.  You could probably swap this soundtrack with Inception's soundtrack and still have a reasonably good soundtrack.  It works for the movie, but I was not surprised in the slightest when his name came up in the credits because it was pretty obvious who'd written the score.  Too predictable, but I can't fault the execution.

And now it's your turn!  Anyone who has seen the movie, your thoughts?  I'd give it a pretty high rating, call it 9.5/10.  There's just a couple spots that keep it from being a 10, but they were noticeable enough for me to see them on the first viewing and wonder what was up, even if I can't remember them right now to post.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 12:26:02 am by Scotty »

 

Offline zookeeper

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
I was disappointed. It had so much potential, but then it devolved into...

Spoiler:
a stupid time loop and how love conquers all. Actual quote spoken by a scientist and meant literally: "Love is the one thing we’re capable of perceiving that transcends time and space". Seriously? That's just incredibly stupid.

What the movie depicts happening is basically:

Spoiler:
Future five-dimensional humans who are so out there that they no longer know how to communicate with near-future humans create a wormhole near Saturn so a guy can go through it and by chance decide to dive into a black hole to be saved by the 5D humans and put into an extradimensional place where he can encode a world-saving message to his daughter by bumping off books off a shelf and messing with falling dust... which is what got the movie started in the first place, thus the most awfully generic kind of time paradox.

It just doesn't make any sense at all.

To me it was exactly as facepalm-worthy as it sounds. If the movie had done away with the whole ghost thing and replaced it with anything that actually makes sense, then fine, it would have been a lot better movie. Everything else was good! The space travel, the planets, visuals, Mann, the robots, all good.

It's hard for me to say how good the movie was as a whole, because the majority of it was good, but the eventual resolution was just terrible and pretty much sours the whole experience.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
Here's the thing though: That premise, silly as it sounds, would work perfectly in the hands of someone like Steven Spielberg. Nolan, for better or worse, is a very clinical, very technical person; He is more interested in technology and plot than characters, and while that works perfectly for the "The Right Stuff" sequences of Interstellar, it just does not work for the more emotional bits.

It reminds me a LOT of Sunshine, a completely perfect movie for most of its length that suddenly shifted into zombie slasher territory partway through, ruining the whole experience.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline zookeeper

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
Funnily enough, Sunshine never bothered me for some reason. It shifted gears, but IIRC there was no pseudo-philosophical nonsense, there was just a crazy guy.

To compare to other sci-fi space movies: Gravity was great, Europa Report was great, Moon was great, Contact was great. Event Horizon was good, Sunshine was good. I'm afraid Interstellar has to rank lower than any of them.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
I really enjoyed it. It suffered from all typical Nolan shortcomings, namely the absolute refusal to follow the "Show, don't tell" rule, too much dragging, too much talking, too much pseudo-philosophizing.

I agree that the "love conquers all" bull**** line is bull****, but there were good lines in there as well, like Cooper's "We used to look up at the sky and wonder at our place in the stars, now we just look down and worry about our place in the dirt", which encapsulates really well what happened to the society when it collapsed, it stopped thinking about humans as something more than just caretakers of the status quo, it stopped dreaming big. In a sense, it's a very subtle line of criticism to today's lack of inspiring movies about the future (it's all dystopias, except perhaps Lucy), but it feels a lot more than just that.

The closed time loop thing bothered me a bit, but I wasn't disappointed. I wasn't expecting Kubrick abstraction like mentality. I was a bit hoping for it though. I was a tad disappointed with the absence of a photon sphere (or two in this case...). I was also a bit disappointed when Cooper's communication with dr Brand (when he falls) doesn't get slower and slower, and of course, he should have seen the whole universe go to infinite time when falling off. That would have been a ridiculously breathtaking visual. Come on Nolan, what the hell!!

Of course Nolan would try to bring this Spielberg-like family thing into this bigger picture. But there was tooo much talk. At the end I was more or less expecting someone to explain in minute detail the workings of O'Neill cylinders and then sighed of relief that such just didn't happen.

I agree with everything Scotty said. McConaughey was absolutely amazing.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
I have mixed feelings about it. No doubt it's a memorable movie with tense and graphic scenes, but...

Spoiler:
I don't like what they did with the Gargantua black hole. The moment Cooper and TARS pass beyond the event horizon is where the movie departs from its sci-fi nature and temporarily embraces some sort of fantasy style. That part and how the whole "phantom" thing was explained made the plot actually make sense, but that's not what I would have expected from Interstellar. My expectations for this movie shrank in 5 minutes.
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Offline watsisname

Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
There was some discussion/review on the WHIYL thread, but yes, this film needs a dedicated thread. :)  I had pretty much the same reactions and recommend the film very highly.  If anyone is reading this and has not seen the film, then what the **** are you doing?  Alt+F4 right the **** now and go to the theatre.  And see it in IMAAAAX.  70mm format if available, *****es.

Quote
Hands up, who knew Matt Damon was in this movie before stepping into the theater (or spoiling yourselves on this review, you rotten scoundrels)?

Not me!  That made for an interesting reveal.

Quote
I was a tad disappointed with the absence of a photon sphere (or two in this case...)

You might see one photon sphere in the case of a rotating black hole like Gargantua.

For non-rotating black holes, there is a photon sphere at r=3M, but the orbits are unstable to even infinitesimal perturbations or imperfection of angular momentum/radius.  It's worse than trying to balance a pencil on its point.  So you would not see any appreciable number of photons trapped at this radius.

For 'Gargantua', there are two counter-rotating photon rings in the equatorial plane above the horizon, but these are unstable too, so don't expect to see anything meaningful there.  However, there is form of photon sphere between these where their orbits are stable (but weeeeird), and there may be another stable photon sphere inside the inner horizon.  You would never see the second one though, because an observer cannot be there.  (Relativistic counter-streaming, or "mass inflation instability" kills you first at the inner horizon, at least according to a number of recent literature on this type of black hole geometry.)

Quote
Brand (when he falls) doesn't get slower and slower, and of course, he should have seen the whole universe go to infinite time when falling off. That would have been a ridiculously breathtaking visual. Come on Nolan, what the hell!!

Actually, Nolan did initially want to explicitly show this effect (the outside universe being sped up when approaching a black hole), judging from an early version of the script.  There are some really cool ideas in there, especially with possibilities of how life could have worked on Mann's frozen planet.  But there are also even more ****ing stupid ideas.  I'm much happier with what made it to theatre.

I'd also say that it's a good thing Nolan didn't show this effect, because it's wrong.  You only see it if you maintain your position just above the horizon (which means constant and enormous acceleration, which is utterly infeasible.)  You could also see it if you manage to maintain an orbit just above the horizon, but this is again infeasible for the same reason.  Orbits below r=3M are unstable so you must constantly accelerate to stay there. 

There is one way to see the future evolution of the universe while on a free-fall trajectory like Cooper's.  It requires an idealized (more on that in a moment) geometry of the charged or rotating black hole, so it could work with Gargantua.  The first problem is that seeing it requires getting killed.  Twice.  First, by the act of seeing the entire past history of the universe as you pass through the mass instability at the inner horizon.  Then, you see (and are killed by) seeing the future evolution of the universe as you pass back out the inner horizon.

Why does it kill you?  Because it is extremely energetic.  Think about it -- if you see the entire past or future history of the universe in the span of a few seconds, that you are seeing a lot of photons, all extremely blue-shifted.  You would be vaporized by them.

The second problem is that this black hole geometry assumes that there is no matter going through it -- it's a vacuum solution, which looks a lot like a wormhole (hence moving back out of the inner horizon, and finding yourself in a new space-time).  But the solution fails the moment you introduce any form of mass-energy to the system, and this is also what causes the mass-inflation instability at the inner horizon.


While I'm at it, here are some other problems with the black hole physics shown in Interstellar.  Not that I am picking on them.  Nolan and Thorne have said that they take liberties with rendition of black holes and relativity not because they are lazy, but because a fully realistic treatment would be incomprehensible to most viewers.  And I think they are right.  Also, fully realistic treatment would ruin the story.

-The accretion disk would have been lethal to Cooper et. al when they flew near/through it.  It is too hot and the velocities are enormous.
-The accretion disk doesn't swirl (faster orbits at smaller radii) -- it looks like a static texture as far as I could tell.  The only thing that is accurate about it is the ray tracing, making proper use of the Kerr-metric.  (Kip Thorne's handiwork.)
-The accretion disk looks symmetric, but it shouldn't because of relativistic beaming.  It should look more like this.
-No time dilation of Cooper's radio message to Brand as he falls toward the horizon.  It just gets fainter with more static, then cuts out.  It's also hard to imagine her picking it up for very long without having to compensate for the increasing wavelength.
-Brand should never have heard him say he was inside the horizon (at least I think he actually said that? Might have heard/remembered wrong.) Cooper also would have had no way of knowing when he passed the horizon.  The horizon is invisible and not note-worthy to someone going through it.
-Incorrect rendition of what it looks like to fall towards and through an event horizon.  It's actually even weirder..
-You are not surrounded by blackness when inside a black hole!  The outside universe takes up half your field of view even when you're just about to hit the singularity.
-"Gathering data" on a singularity makes no sense.  They are invisible even if you are right next to them.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
That's amazing and no I don't think Cooper said that. Or at least if he said Brand didn't listen to it.

 
Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
Here's the thing though: That premise, silly as it sounds, would work perfectly in the hands of someone like Steven Spielberg.

The script was originally written for Spielberg.

Quote
The love transcends all bit

It should be noted that it's not a point the movie makes, but rather one particular scientist who happens to be deeply in love with someone else who she knows that everything hinges on her speech if they will ever see each other again or not. Off course she will say irrational things!

  

Offline Scotty

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
I have mixed feelings about it. No doubt it's a memorable movie with tense and graphic scenes, but...

Spoiler:
I don't like what they did with the Gargantua black hole. The moment Cooper and TARS pass beyond the event horizon is where the movie departs from its sci-fi nature and temporarily embraces some sort of fantasy style. That part and how the whole "phantom" thing was explained made the plot actually make sense, but that's not what I would have expected from Interstellar. My expectations for this movie shrank in 5 minutes.

I hate to break it to you, but "Science Fiction" doesn't require rigorous adherence to known laws of physics.  That's where the "fiction" part of that term comes in.  Journey to the Center of the Earth is a wonderful example of science fiction, and it's completely and totally ****ing bonkers even compared to what folks knew back in the day it was written.  Escapism and fantasy are some of the most important and influential driving forces of science fiction, and I think it's important that clinical, accurate, rigorously defined science fiction doesn't become "true" science fiction while soft science fiction is discarded for being soft.

Here's the thing though: That premise, silly as it sounds, would work perfectly in the hands of someone like Steven Spielberg.

The script was originally written for Spielberg.

Quote
The love transcends all bit

It should be noted that it's not a point the movie makes, but rather one particular scientist who happens to be deeply in love with someone else who she knows that everything hinges on her speech if they will ever see each other again or not. Off course she will say irrational things!

It's also repeated by another particular scientist who happens to deeply love someone else who he knows is immensely important as an explanation for several of the late-movie odd bits.  That doesn't make it any more or less "true", but it certainly makes it a theme of the movie.

 

Offline Blue Lion

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
When I first saw a trailer for this, it was corn fields and rockets so I thought some kind of "man relearns space travel after disaster" thing and I was kinda right.

Things I liked:

Funnybots were funny.
Surprise Matt Damon.
No villain, I really enjoyed having no bad guy. When I'm watching Murph give her message towards the end and one of the robots is watching, I'm expecting him to cut out the second part which was the "reveal". You know, the robots are in on the evil plan. Nope, he plays the whole message.
No one acts stupid really. So many movies to me are ruined because someone does something dumb just to forward the plot. Someone breaking the vials on purpose or getting "space madness" or something.
There were no aliens.

What I didn't like were nitpicks really:

The moon landing is fake! was one because it never came up again. You could have made the same point without it.
Dylan Thomas, we get it. Man fights for survival, got it.


I could get over a lot of the science issues but I guess some people can't.

 

Offline Drogoth

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
On the point of the 5D humans making the gravitational things instead of just communicating:

I thought the movie made the point that only Gravity could cross through time? At least that's how I understood it. All they could do was open the wormhole
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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
I don't really think it was that as much as that they genuinely couldn't pull themselves down to the level needed to perform the actions necessary. All the stuff Cooper does in the end is using gravity, after all, it's not just limited to wormholes
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Offline zookeeper

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
I don't really think it was that as much as that they genuinely couldn't pull themselves down to the level needed to perform the actions necessary.

It they were somehow (how?) unable to wiggle books or clock hands themselves, then how could they have possibly figured out that this one specific guy on a farm on earth needs to go through a wormhole in order for him to decide to plunge into a black hole so that they can grab him and put him behind a bookshelf where he'll actually figure out what he needs to do?

If they can open a massive wormhole and predict human psychology to such inconceivable precision, then surely they could have just wiggled the books and clock hands themselves. Except that it's a time paradox anyway, so it couldn't make any sense even if you explained that somehow. :banghead:

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
The moon landing is fake! was one because it never came up again. You could have made the same point without it.
Dylan Thomas, we get it. Man fights for survival, got it.

That was actually one of my favorite scenes. You could breathe the tension growing up in Cooper's face. And it felt so true, as in, yeah this would totally happen in a fallen society, people would simply deny our greatest feats so they wouldn't feel as bad. And it also felt so current with all the science denialism in school boards and so on going on today.

And it is wrong to state it "never came up again". Cooper deals with it later with his father when he goes with the great line about how we worry about our place in the dirt now instead of wondering about our place amongst the stars.

 
Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
I don't really think it was that as much as that they genuinely couldn't pull themselves down to the level needed to perform the actions necessary.

It they were somehow (how?) unable to wiggle books or clock hands themselves, then how could they have possibly figured out that this one specific guy on a farm on earth needs to go through a wormhole in order for him to decide to plunge into a black hole so that they can grab him and put him behind a bookshelf where he'll actually figure out what he needs to do?

If they can open a massive wormhole and predict human psychology to such inconceivable precision, then surely they could have just wiggled the books and clock hands themselves. Except that it's a time paradox anyway, so it couldn't make any sense even if you explained that somehow. :banghead:

I didn't see any problems with the coherence of that part of the plot at the time, and I still don't now.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Blue Lion

  • Star Shatterer
  • 210
Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
The moon landing is fake! was one because it never came up again. You could have made the same point without it.
Dylan Thomas, we get it. Man fights for survival, got it.

That was actually one of my favorite scenes. You could breathe the tension growing up in Cooper's face. And it felt so true, as in, yeah this would totally happen in a fallen society, people would simply deny our greatest feats so they wouldn't feel as bad. And it also felt so current with all the science denialism in school boards and so on going on today.

And it is wrong to state it "never came up again". Cooper deals with it later with his father when he goes with the great line about how we worry about our place in the dirt now instead of wondering about our place amongst the stars.

Later is like a few more minutes into the movie. You never really see the effects of this line. Once they leave there, the only person not completely on board for space travel (see what I did there?) is the son when he's older. You never see how the general populace reacts to this, if they even know about it. The issue of the son not going to college was beside the point because he takes over the farm basically immediately.

The acting was fine and all but it had no bearing on the plot. Everything would have happened the same way if those lines were there or not. Murph was already established as science minded basically right away, we didn't need to know this. It just felt like they needed to cram in something about current events but didn't want to go anywhere with it. If it had come up at some point later in the movie I would have cut it more slack.


I don't really think it was that as much as that they genuinely couldn't pull themselves down to the level needed to perform the actions necessary.

It they were somehow (how?) unable to wiggle books or clock hands themselves, then how could they have possibly figured out that this one specific guy on a farm on earth needs to go through a wormhole in order for him to decide to plunge into a black hole so that they can grab him and put him behind a bookshelf where he'll actually figure out what he needs to do?

If they can open a massive wormhole and predict human psychology to such inconceivable precision, then surely they could have just wiggled the books and clock hands themselves. Except that it's a time paradox anyway, so it couldn't make any sense even if you explained that somehow. :banghead:


There was a quick line in the end where he says something like "they have access to all time as 5DB they can't find singular points in time" or something. Basically I think it was they needed someone who experienced time as we do to do the work.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
Later is like a few more minutes into the movie. You never really see the effects of this line. Once they leave there, the only person not completely on board for space travel (see what I did there?) is the son when he's older. You never see how the general populace reacts to this, if they even know about it. The issue of the son not going to college was beside the point because he takes over the farm basically immediately.

The acting was fine and all but it had no bearing on the plot. Everything would have happened the same way if those lines were there or not. Murph was already established as science minded basically right away, we didn't need to know this. It just felt like they needed to cram in something about current events but didn't want to go anywhere with it. If it had come up at some point later in the movie I would have cut it more slack.

No it wouldn't. They are establishing the current mood and how Cooper and his daughter were not in sync with this. Basically, they are establishing the personality traits that determine their actions for the rest of the entire movie, so in that sense you are wrong on most of what you say. It is also a thinly veiled criticism towards today's lack of utopian visions of space.

 

Offline Hellzed

  • 28
Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
Random thought : a skybox with a black hole would be awesome.

 
Re: Interstellar - Review and Discussion
Quote
It they were somehow (how?) unable to wiggle books or clock hands themselves, then how could they have possibly figured out that this one specific guy on a farm on earth needs to go through a wormhole in order for him to decide to plunge into a black hole so that they can grab him and put him behind a bookshelf where he'll actually figure out what he needs to do?

Because they read up on their history. 'tis called the stable time loop