Author Topic: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy  (Read 22818 times)

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Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
I am talking about Hatred, a video game that plays the "mass murder fantasy" thing with an entirely straight face. Yesterday, Hatred was removed from Greenlight. Today, it was put back on again.

I personally really don't like Hatred's concept. The game devs specifically state that it was created as a backlash against gaming becoming more 'politically correct' - an entirely silly notion considering that games like GTAV and Call of Duty are some of the best selling games in history. Personally, I wouldn't stock such a game on that basis alone, esp. if it takes a rather... extreme course hatred does.

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
Well GTA V did get pulled off Target's shelves.

Pushing back against political correctness is a good thing.

Doing it this way is not.

The way to do it is simply to ignore what political correctness is telling you to do, and do what you want to do. Don't acknowledge it (political correctness) just ignore it. Political correctness should be treated as a complete irrelevance when it comes to deciding what you want to do. Treating it that way is giving it exactly the level of respect it deserves. Making a game explicitly to push back against political correctness is giving political correctness far too much respect. Treat it as an irrelevance. Out of sight, out of mind. You aren't pushing back against political correctness because you choose to, you're pushing back against it because it comes naturally to you. You are expending no effort to push back against it, you're just pushing back against it because it comes naturally. Make the game you want to make, if it happens to go in contravention to political correctness or doesn't, it matters not, because politial correctness is completely irrelevant.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
I dont care about the game itself, but I care about Steam not censoring content for dubious reasons (like being PC), so its a good thing the game was put back to Greenlight. Let the gamer votes decide if they want it on Steam.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
Pushing back against political correctness is a good thing.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen you post, and that's saying something.

I dont care about the game itself, but I care about Steam not censoring content for dubious reasons (like being PC), so its a good thing the game was put back to Greenlight. Let the gamer votes decide if they want it on Steam.
Steam choosing not to distribute a game is not censorship, just like Target in Australia choosing not to carry something is not censorship.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
Pushing back against political correctness is a good thing.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen you post, and that's saying something.

I dont care about the game itself, but I care about Steam not censoring content for dubious reasons (like being PC), so its a good thing the game was put back to Greenlight. Let the gamer votes decide if they want it on Steam.
Steam choosing not to distribute a game is not censorship, just like Target in Australia choosing not to carry something is not censorship.

In today's current PC climate Steam not choosing to carry a game most likely means the game doesn't succeed.  So really pulling a game, particularly when doing so is contradictory to the greenlight system, and when they're already carrying and selling games of the same ilk,  is hypocritical and irresponsible. It's beyond censorship.

But hey that's what happens when gamers allow one company to gain a virtual monopoly

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy

I dont care about the game itself, but I care about Steam not censoring content for dubious reasons (like being PC), so its a good thing the game was put back to Greenlight. Let the gamer votes decide if they want it on Steam.
Steam choosing not to distribute a game is not censorship, just like Target in Australia choosing not to carry something is not censorship.

How is it not censorship? Cancelling the planned distribution of a media work due to it being objectionable or politically incorrect is pretty much the definition of censorship.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
In today's current PC climate Steam not choosing to carry a game most likely means the game doesn't succeed.
"Most likely"? That's awfully vague.


I dont care about the game itself, but I care about Steam not censoring content for dubious reasons (like being PC), so its a good thing the game was put back to Greenlight. Let the gamer votes decide if they want it on Steam.
Steam choosing not to distribute a game is not censorship, just like Target in Australia choosing not to carry something is not censorship.

How is it not censorship? Cancelling the planned distribution of a media work due to it being objectionable or politically incorrect is pretty much the definition of censorship.
Really? Somebody passed a law to prevent media from being published? Somebody's freedom of expression or press was curtailed? I'm not seeing it. If distributing Hatred had been made illegal or Steam had insisted on removing specific portions of the game, that would have been censorship. Choosing not to provide a platform for something is not censorship. It's not "planned distribution" when Valve doesn't guarantee anything on Greenlight will eventually become available for sale. Hell, there are plenty of games that have been "greenlit", way back at the beginning of Greenlight, even, that are still available.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
Given the content of this game I look forward to voting on whether or not Jew Killer will be allowed on Greenlight. What right does Valve have to decide what they sell? Stop being so PC everyone.

BTW, all the fur flying over private sellers not wanting to stock GTA and this, and not a peep from you guys about DA:I actually being banned from India because it has gay people in it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 02:45:12 pm by Mr. Vega »
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
In today's current PC climate Steam not choosing to carry a game most likely means the game doesn't succeed.
"Most likely"? That's awfully vague.


I dont care about the game itself, but I care about Steam not censoring content for dubious reasons (like being PC), so its a good thing the game was put back to Greenlight. Let the gamer votes decide if they want it on Steam.
Steam choosing not to distribute a game is not censorship, just like Target in Australia choosing not to carry something is not censorship.

How is it not censorship? Cancelling the planned distribution of a media work due to it being objectionable or politically incorrect is pretty much the definition of censorship.
Really? Somebody passed a law to prevent media from being published? Somebody's freedom of expression or press was curtailed? I'm not seeing it. If distributing Hatred had been made illegal or Steam had insisted on removing specific portions of the game, that would have been censorship. Choosing not to provide a platform for something is not censorship. It's not "planned distribution" when Valve doesn't guarantee anything on Greenlight will eventually become available for sale. Hell, there are plenty of games that have been "greenlit", way back at the beginning of Greenlight, even, that are still available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

Quote
Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.
Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship.

Not only government can censor. Steam as a media outlet deciding to not provide a platform for some game is censorship. Private institutions can also censor. Such censorship is legal (and you can definitely argue that its often justified), but lets not pretent its not censorship.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
Accusations of censorship have become a new Godwin's Law. Stop abusing it.

(I would have just invoked Godwin had the identity of Hatred's developers not made it entirely appropriate).
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
Not only government can censor.
Indeed not.

Steam as a media outlet deciding to not provide a platform for some game is censorship.
Nope.

Private institutions can also censor.
Indeed they can!

Such censorship is legal (and you can definitely argue that its often justified), but lets not pretent its not censorship.
When it's actually censorship, yes. Let's not pretend that a store just not selling something is censorship, though, because it's just plain silly.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
Argh. Semantics.

I'd rather people unloaded their frustrations on something like this game, or this:

http://www.whackyourboss.us/

Or darts into a picture of someone they don't like rather than darts / bullets, etc. into that person's actual face.

I don't think someone playing this game would be any more likely to go on a killing spree than someone playing what I linked would be likely to brutally assault / murder their boss. In fact, most people probably aren't thinking of their actual boss when playing that game.

It goes back to that old thing we laugh at where people try to equate video game violence with actual violence.

 
Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
Retailers refusing to stock certain media can and has been used to exert tremendous pressure on what works do and don't enter the public sphere. It's an extremely powerful political tool, and you would absolutely be kicking and screaming if it was being used to attack your political position, so please stop acting like it's not worthy of discussion.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
It's an extremely powerful political tool, and you would absolutely be kicking and screaming if it was being used to attack your political position, so please stop acting like it's not worthy of discussion.
I would absolutely not be kicking and screaming if a game I liked wasn't being sold on Steam, because it's already the case.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
Retailers refusing to stock certain media can and has been used to exert tremendous pressure on what works do and don't enter the public sphere. It's an extremely powerful political tool, and you would absolutely be kicking and screaming if it was being used to attack your political position, so please stop acting like it's not worthy of discussion.
Therefore, every time a store pulls anything for objectionable content, it must be part of a coordinated attempt to control culture.

At least, that's the therefore you have to make to get from your point to theirs.

Btw, still no explanation why this is getting all the attention and not a peep made about a government outright banning a very popular game.
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
When it's actually censorship, yes. Let's not pretend that a store just not selling something is censorship, though, because it's just plain silly.

A media store actively refusing to sell something because its objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient? That is censorship. This is not Hatred not being sold because it failed Greenlight or developers dont want it sold on Steam, this was Steam making an active decision to stop already running Greenlight. It fulfills the definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

Whatever, this is purely a semantic argument. I can reformulate my earlier post if the C word irritates you there:
I dont care about the game itself, but I care about Steam curating content based on dubious criteria (like being PC), so its a good thing the game was put back to Greenlight. Let the gamer votes decide if they want it on Steam.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
PC is without a doubt the most powerful euphemism ever invented. You can use it on literally anything.
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes

 
Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
In today's current PC climate Steam not choosing to carry a game most likely means the game doesn't succeed.
"Most likely"? That's awfully vague.

No it isn't. You ever heard of Total Biscuit? He does videos on PC games on youtube.
He has stated that many developers specifically ask him to not do a video on their game until it is available on Steam.  If it's on another distribution platform like GOG or Humble store first they ask him to wait to talk about their game until its on Steam because Steam sales will account for most of their sales.

Is that anecdotal, sure. But the guy's talking to developers all the time and those same developers are most concerned with having a roof over their head and putting food in their mouth so I trust that the latter has done their research.

Or if you want  here's a 2 and a half hour video of him talking to developers and marketers about Steam curation and the platform as a whole:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzUIIkP5RMA

This graphic from 2011 says that Steam has some 51% market share:
http://www.prlog.org/11520350-digital-distribution-giant-steam-is-losing-market-shares-to-amazon-gamestop-and-microsoft.html

If that's still remotely true, a game potentially losing 50% of its sales is a big thing.  Not that market share directly translates into sales but it is an indicator. 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 03:32:48 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
It's an extremely powerful political tool, and you would absolutely be kicking and screaming if it was being used to attack your political position, so please stop acting like it's not worthy of discussion.
I would absolutely not be kicking and screaming if a game I liked wasn't being sold on Steam, because it's already the case.

But how would you react if developers of a game you like wanted to sell it on Steam, and Steam suddenly refused them, despite very favorable Greenlight response?
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: Game attempts to attract controversy; attracts controversy
It's an extremely powerful political tool, and you would absolutely be kicking and screaming if it was being used to attack your political position, so please stop acting like it's not worthy of discussion.
I would absolutely not be kicking and screaming if a game I liked wasn't being sold on Steam, because it's already the case.

But how would you react if developers of a game you like wanted to sell it on Steam, and Steam suddenly refused them, despite very favorable Greenlight response?
What if my favorite game is Custer's Revenge and steam won't sell it? Is that censorship?

If that is, could you please tell me if there's another word denoting censorship that's actually worth giving a **** about?
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes