Author Topic: When did the Shivans develop the new ability  (Read 2097 times)

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Offline bloated

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When did the Shivans develop the new ability
they can shoot through their ship, I missed that in debrief, when did that start?

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
I seem to recall that this is a problem with firing point positions and (maybe) polygon normals in the SCP that was mentioned a long time ago, I think it was something to do with firing points inside the ship mesh.

 

Offline bloated

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
between tiles?

it made the mission quite a bit tougher that's for sure, I thought it may have been done on purpose to dissuade ppl from exploiting that inherent weakness in capital ships.

one of the few things that kind of stands out with FS as I think about it was some of the weapon balance.

I just did the Ravana mission and after the first time through using Cyclops as the game asked me wayyyyy back in the 90's, I've since abandoned using them entirely and gone with Tempest dumbfires, you can carry a gloriously excessive amount of them on the cattle wagon and can fight both fighter and capital ship alike with them whether it be disarming the ship while the Kemnu finishes it or ripping it's escorts to shreds as you dedicate much of the energy to shields.

I guess the thing with Cyclops torpedoes was they were always more of a penalty to use.

I wonder if the FS guys realized they were too much of a pain and allowed for alternatives if gamers so chose to look for them.

 

Offline Cyborg17

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
I actually always use them.  My bombing run looks like this:

1.Approach the turret while the bomb locks on, usually from an angle that allows me room to escape.
2.Once locked, get to about 150 meters?  (ball park, I do it by visual memory)
3.Hit my burners, begin to pull up to avoid collision, and fire the bombs.
4.Avoid the collision, switch banks and look for another subsystem/turret to target.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
It is because weapons from a ship's turrets don't collide with the ship itself.
So like, the Ravana (for example) can fire an AAA beam through its own hull to hit you on the other side as long as you are in the turrets Field of View.

It;s always been like that though, so heh. (If you're making a mod you can prevent this by using the "check hull" flag for the turret)
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Offline headdie

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
iirc its retail which is why the "check hull" flag was created rather than an outright fix as that would affect retail gameplay/mission balance.
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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
It says right here that it's due to a glitch in the Ravana model:

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Slaying_Ravana

Quote
The Ravana model has a glitch in that some of its turrets can fire through the destroyer, hitting you even if you are supposedly protected by a portion of the Ravana's hull.
Why do you say "as" instead of "because"?

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
It happens on all the ships, it's just more pronounced on Ravana due to its weird shape. Hecate is another ship notorious for firing through its hull. Other ships are much better about this, you can get it on Demon if you really try, but in general, turret layout is set up in a way that makes this a non-issue.

 

Offline bloated

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
no one noticed my "I missed that in debrief" joke?.... sniff.  :(

 
Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
I can recall it happening in FS1 playing it from the original CDs.

I just found a way to survive with it.

SpaceAce.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
no one noticed my "I missed that in debrief" joke?.... sniff.  :(

Honestly given some of the FS1 debriefs, like the one where  they assume you're a spy for the Shivans and arrest you, some of us might just assume there really is a debrief for that.
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Offline bloated

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
Quote
I actually always use them.  My bombing run looks like this:

1.Approach the turret while the bomb locks on, usually from an angle that allows me room to escape.
2.Once locked, get to about 150 meters?  (ball park, I do it by visual memory)
3.Hit my burners, begin to pull up to avoid collision, and fire the bombs.
4.Avoid the collision, switch banks and look for another subsystem/turret to target.
in 20 seconds with tempests I can take out 2 beam cannons and dive for the hull of the Ravana at which point I may take out the odd target of opportunity while looking for a means to recharge my shields and ruining the fighter screens ability to track me as I head to the next beam cannon or the weapons subsystem.

that is impossible with cyclops torpedoes which is why I despise them.

 

Offline Kie99

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
no one noticed my "I missed that in debrief" joke?.... sniff.  :(

Honestly given some of the FS1 debriefs, like the one where  they assume you're a spy for the Shivans and arrest you, some of us might just assume there really is a debrief for that.

Which mission is that?
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Offline bloated

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
that may have been in Silent Threat, I don't believe it was in FS1.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
No, I believe that was from Pandora's Box.  If you somehow manage to scan the cargo that's rigged to explode, you'll get a failure debrief stating that you had to be a Shivan spy in order to manage it.  The joke is that there's no (legit) way to see that debrief, since the cargo self-destructs way before you're in scanning range.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
Silent Threat did have a rather humorous debriefing about the Hammer of Light naming a cruiser after you, though.
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schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

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<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Rhys

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
Silent Threat did have a rather humorous debriefing about the Hammer of Light naming a cruiser after you, though.

Wait, what? I don't remember this.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: When did the Shivans develop the new ability
Silent Threat did have a rather humorous debriefing about the Hammer of Light naming a cruiser after you, though.

Wait, what? I don't remember this.
The mission is "Field of Destruction" (md-08).

Quote from: debrief_mdm8_2.wav
Whose side are you on, pilot? Iota was pulverized out there. I am not authorized to discuss the consequences of this debacle, but Hammer of Light just named a cruiser after you.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.