[Mr. Vega]

**** you, atheists are as much an vulnerable minority as Muslims. you want to turn this into a thread about how militant atheists are just obviously hate murders maybe it's you who should not be posting.

I'm suggesting it's a strong possibility that these murders were hate crimes. I'm not the one shouting **** yous at people whose opinions I don't like. Is this your idea of a free exchange of ideas?

[Bobboau]

You compared atheists the the Mathew Shepard killers, I think a "**** you" is is more than warranted.

[Mr. Vega]

You compared atheists the the Mathew Shepard killers, I think a "**** you" is is more than warranted.

I compared a killer who happened to be an atheist to the Matthew Shepard killers, so I could point out a similarity in the speculation over their motives, which I find dubious in both cases. Reading comprehension!

[Mr. Vega]

BTW, I'm an atheist. I have been since I was 12. My father is a Methodist minister who does not approve of my beliefs. I am fully aware of what atheists in america go through (and that it's not in the same multiverse as what American Muslims go through). I'm just not a good enough internet atheist, I guess. I'm not dogmatically pure enough.

[Bobboau]

you have a knack for communication.

you know what, leaving the thread for the evening.

[Mr. Vega]

Moving on.

This is all going to hinge on what the cops find on the guy's computer.

[Col.Hornet]

Atheism can solve problems xD?
ukhm... Soviet Union... ukhm...

[Luis Dias]

Fwiw, killing people over parking spaces is not something I find rare. I've heard ridiculous stories of the same kind here in Portugal as well, where even finding guns is something way more difficult. Some people are just too violent over silly things. This story seems to me as a building up of hatred from one guy with axes to grind against these people, then one day a heated discussion over another ridiculous thing made the guy tick. I can easily admit that the fact these people were Muslims and acted the part possibly contributed to his action. It's a lot easier to hate those we deem different and on the wrong, foreigners, outsiders.

I think the whole atheist hatred angle is getting bad rap mostly because it's one singular incident. One data point doesn't a trend make.

[Dragon]

Pretty much this. It's the first time I've heard of an atheist hick (pun intended), but it's not inconceivable they exist. This particular incident, however, had nothing to do with him being an atheist and everything to do with him being a hick. Also, he might have hated religious people in general. And even if he did hate Muslims more, because of both his conflict and the recent news (opinions held by those types tend to be shaped by whatever was on TV), I don't think this tragedy wouldn't have happened if the victims were of any different race or religion (at most, it would have happened sooner or later, likely not by much).

Atheism can solve problems xD?
ukhm... Soviet Union... ukhm...

Well, it didn't have problems with religion... Actually, Soviet Union is an example where atheism came in very handy. Not for people, but for government. Since atheism was state-mandated, this means separation of church and state was about as high as it possibly could be. Aside from very despotic periods where it was actually persecuted (but then, it wasn't the only thing persecuted in those times...), Soviet government mostly ignored religion and left churches to on their own. Which is exactly how a government should handle those things. I wouldn't say its atheism fixed anything, but it certainly contributed little to its problems (though that is saying like tossing a salt shaker overboard contributed little to the salination level of the Dead Sea... ).

"Atheism" in that context is very much a religion.

<semantics>under no context is atheism a religion</semantics>

if you want to argue make a separate thread

Did you notice the quotes and the capital letter? It should've tipped you off, I mean "Atheism", not atheism. The former is, as the quotes helpfully indicated, not a correct usage of the word. Not that it stops people from using it that way (but then again, it's usually not the only thing they miss the point of).

[Col.Hornet]

I meant that there were times where a red a**hole called Josif Djugashvili created a different kind of extremism in terms of religion. All types of religions were persecuted equally. In that matter atheism did not solve the problem of violence because it was the reason of it.

To the point. None ideology can keep relations between people peaceful. What does is the rational and reasonable thinking which some ideologies  lack of

[Dragon]

I meant that there were times where a red a**hole called Josif Djugashvili created a different kind of extremism in terms of religion. All types of religions were persecuted equally. In that matter atheism did not solve the problem of violence because it was the reason of it.

To the point. None ideology can keep relations between people peaceful. What does is the rational and reasonable thinking which some ideologies  lack of

Atheism in Soviet Union was Lenin's idea, not his. Also, in Stalin's case atheism was not the reason for the violence, but merely yet another excuse. Here, it was about religious leaders having a degree of power over their subjects. Stalin, of course, would have none of that. His extremism went way beyond religion and extended to anybody who dared to disagree with him. Besides, in his times, the atheism was actually pretty arguable - one could interpret what he did with both himself and Lenin (who must've been spinning like a top in that mausoleum of his...) as an apotheosis of sorts. There's a reason why he (and many others) is said to have had a "cult of personality". It's certainly an interesting approach - one could even call Soviet Union (or indeed, any dictatorship with a similarly deified leader) of that time a theocracy on that basis. It is certainly possible to draw many parallels between dictatorships and theocracies.

Also, atheism is merely a principle (hence Bobbeau's response on the proper usage of the world) or an idea that there is no God. By itself, it's really not an ideology, but may form a part of one (indeed, the idea itself is pretty old, in Europe it dates back to Enlightment period, I think, and other civilizations might've had godless philosophies before that). It is a useful principle, certainly closer to experimental results than the alternatives, but its main advantage is denying people a "simple" answer to basic questions about the universe (answering "God made it so" is just an elaborate rephrasing of "Just coz'"), thus forcing them to think it through (this is why it's more compatible with Eastern religions - Western ones preferred ordinary people not to think much, or at least not about difficult questions). Which does not help those to who such questions never occur or who don't care about the answers (then again, thinking is usually not the forte of such people). For a state, it's also useful in that it allows it to disregard religious issues, and as such not only treat all religious people equally, but also separates all clerical organizations from the state, which is a very desirable thing if you're dealing with a multicultural state.

[666maslo666]

"People say nothing can solve the Middle East problem, not mediation, not arms, not financial aid. I say there is something. Atheism."

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this statement, and certainly there is some truth in it. Any average Joe could have posted a comment like this, nothing abnormal here.

I have yet to see any good reason why atheism should have anything to do with these murders. Just because they were muslims does not mean this was a hate crime at all.

[Aesaar]

There's plenty wrong with that statement.  The vast majority of the Middle-East's problems are political, and they wouldn't just disappear if everyone suddenly accepted that God wasn't real.  Religion is used by relatively intelligent people to get more simple-minded or desperate people to do as they say.   It's a tool, not the problem itself.

Hell, you only need to look at the Internet to see that extremism and douchebaggery doesn't need religion to exist.

[Bobboau]

found an archive of the guy's facebook page
https://archive.today/pWYYn

[Goober5000]

Let's all remember to keep it civil when discussing such contentious real-world news, particularly when strong opinions are involved.

This is not directed at anyone in particular; no posts have been reported and no sanctions are being taken.

Carry on.

[Lorric]

There's plenty wrong with that statement.  The vast majority of the Middle-East's problems are political, and they wouldn't just disappear if everyone suddenly accepted that God wasn't real.  Religion is used by relatively intelligent people to get more simple-minded or desperate people to do as they say.   It's a tool, not the problem itself.

Hell, you only need to look at the Internet to see that extremism and douchebaggery doesn't need religion to exist.

That means he doesn't grasp the complexity of the situation, not that he hates the religious. He probably thinks with everyone believing the same thing everything will magically sort itself out, but as you and I know, it wouldn't.

I think you probably know this though. I'm just saying.

[Lorric]

found an archive of the guy's facebook page
https://archive.today/pWYYn

I've read that first page. This is normal. It's actually tamer than I expected it to be. The cherry picked quote isn't even his own words, it's a quote from someone else. There is nothing in there at all I would remotely describe as hateful. Not even close.

This one I find more interesting:

"It is official, I am a grumpy old man. I now am sure of this, as when I saw a couple having sex in their vehicle in my parking lot a little bit ago instead of just ignoring it I called Chapel Hills finest on them."

[666maslo666]

I read it too, there is a lot of atheism themed posts but nothing abnormal or extreme. There is a picture of a gun.

[Luis Dias]

There's plenty wrong with that statement.  The vast majority of the Middle-East's problems are political, and they wouldn't just disappear if everyone suddenly accepted that God wasn't real.  Religion is used by relatively intelligent people to get more simple-minded or desperate people to do as they say.   It's a tool, not the problem itself.

Hell, you only need to look at the Internet to see that extremism and douchebaggery doesn't need religion to exist.

I totally disagree with this sentiment. I cannot see something like ISIS existing without divine justification. People will cling to every single difference between "tribes" to justify any atrocity, but religion is a real show stopper here. If one had a magic wand and made it so that religion suddenly disappeared from that land, I ****ing would in a heartbeat, I think that would be the single greatest "divine intervention" that could happen there. The reason why this is silly is different. It's not atheism that is going to make this mess disappear, it's the exact other way, this mess will have to sort itself out through decades and then atheism will be able to prosper.

[Bobboau]

...nothing abnormal or extreme. There is a picture of a gun.

:|
...you sure about that first part?