Author Topic: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets  (Read 2413 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rubixcube

  • best username ever
  • 28
size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
Freespace 1 never provides the player with any explicit information regarding the size of all the respective fleets in FS1.
So how large does everyone reckon they were, we know of at least 10 Orion class destroyers in service during the great war. Possibly the same number of vasudan destroyers, and around 20 Demons+Lucifer?
Any other interpretations?
Stuff

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
Here is my best number crunching on the topic circa FS2. I dunno about FS1. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86710.0

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
I like speculation that is grounded in canon and grows logically out of it. :yes:  It reminds me of Mad Bomber's posts on SectorGame back in the day.  (I believe it was he who originated the concept of phasing jump nodes that we used in ST:R.)

For FS1, we have even less definitive information, but we can still draw some conclusions.  I would guess that each FS1 fleet contains a single Orion-class destroyer at most.  Here is the FS1 tech entry on the Orion:

Quote
The Orion is the capital ship of the GTA.  Measuring a frightening 2.1 kilometers in length, the cost to build one of these far outweighs the cost of paying the crew of this ship for 3 years.  There is no more important symbol of Terran Pride than a ship like the Galatea or the Intrepid cruising past a colonized planet, patrolling the system and ensuring safety.  In the course of the 14 year war, very few of these have ever been lost, making the destruction of an Orion a truly horrible defeat.

And here is the entry from the FS1 Reference Bible:
Quote
The mother of all Terran ships.  Measuring a frightening 2.1 kilometers in length, the cost to build one of these far outweighs the cost of paying the crew of this ship for 3 years.  There is no more important symbol of Terran Pride than a ship like the Galatea or the Intrepid cruising past a colonized planet, patrolling the system and ensuring safety.  In the course of the 14 year war, very few of these have ever been lost, and each that one was considered a horrid defeat.  While a temporary stay makes any inhabitants of the system happy, a prolonged tour of duty in a system instills fear into the hearts of civilians.  For the GTA would never send a Orion Destroyer anywhere near a safe system.  Where these ships wander, war is certain to follow.

These imply that Orions are few and far between.  Furthermore, when the Shivans attacked Vasuda Prime, the nodes leading to Vasuda were blockaded by only two Orions each (Galatea/Bastion and Intrepid/Minnow).  If we assume that this was a large deployment by FS1 standards, then most fleet deployments consist of cruisers and maybe one Orion.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the defenses at Tombaugh in Ribos were described as "a fortress" yet the "destruction of Tombaugh" cutscene from the FS1 Ref Bible only shows one installation and one destroyer.  Likewise the Battle of Deneb (2335) in the FS2 opening cutscene only has one Orion.

 

Offline rubixcube

  • best username ever
  • 28
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
Thats interesting, I didn't realize there was an orion guarding Tombaugh station (maybe I should read the fs bible more thoroughly)
That brings the total number to 12:
GTD Galatea
GTD Bastion
GTD Intrepid
GTD Minnow
GTD Amadeus
GTD Nereid
GTD Legion
GTD Krios
GTD Soyakaze
GTD
GTD Myrmidon
GTD XXXX

Probably not too many more than that...



Stuff

 

Offline wardog300k

  • 28
  • I'm a FREDder
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
You forgot:
GTD Eisenhower(destroyed)
GTD Goliath(destroyed)           
which brings it to 14     
Crush the NTF-Conflict Zone
One last war, one last hope, one last survival-Final Destination On Delay
Set free from the GTVA-Liberation Wars On Delay

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
It sounds like rubixcube was just counting Orions; the class of the Goliath and Eisenhower is unknown. Technically, the class of the Minnow and Amadeus is also unknown, but given that the GTA appears to only be operating Orion-class destroyers during the time of FS1, they're both presumed to be Orions; the Goliath and the Eisenhower were both destroyed pre-FS1, however, and may have been pre-Orion designs.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline wardog300k

  • 28
  • I'm a FREDder
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
Minnow is and must be an Orion,why would they send a GTD Box-class with the Orion to stop the Lucy?It also must match Conflict Zone...

Anyways all the GTD SHIP are destroyers,and they were in GTA service,so they count.
Crush the NTF-Conflict Zone
One last war, one last hope, one last survival-Final Destination On Delay
Set free from the GTVA-Liberation Wars On Delay

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
There are any number of reasons why the GTA would send out something that is not an Orion into the way of the Lucy, including that ship being one of the few available to get there in time.

Also, Conflict Zone isn't FS1 canon.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline wardog300k

  • 28
  • I'm a FREDder
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
As a creator of CZ,i find it canon,okay?
Crush the NTF-Conflict Zone
One last war, one last hope, one last survival-Final Destination On Delay
Set free from the GTVA-Liberation Wars On Delay

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
Yeah, Ok, but that's not relevant to the thread, is it? I'm not going to claim that Minnow is an Orion just because we used her as such in BP; From the information available to us from FS1, all we know is that it's a Destroyer. Anything else is speculation (reasonable speculation, mind you, but speculation nonetheless).
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline Black Wolf

  • Twisted Infinities
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • Hey! You! Get off-a my cloud!
    • Visit the TI homepage!
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
You forgot:
GTD Eisenhower(destroyed)
GTD Goliath(destroyed)           
which brings it to 14     

There's no specific mention of the class of these two ships. FWIW, for Frontlines, they're assumed to be an older class of destroyer.
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
The Goliath was destroyed in 2323 and the Eisenhower in 2333, according to the FS1 ships.tbl.  For what it's worth, TVWP was planning to make the Eisenhower an Orion and the Goliath a Reliant.  In fact, the GTD Goliath that appears in the Unification War is intended to be the same one later destroyed in 2323.

(Incidentally, the only reason Aldo's design is called Reliant-class is because of a single line in the Awakenings campaign that we were planning to do a tie-in with.  In the course of development it became clear that a more cromulent name would have been Goliath-class, and the Reliant tech entry alludes to this.)

 

Offline Black Wolf

  • Twisted Infinities
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • Hey! You! Get off-a my cloud!
    • Visit the TI homepage!
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
They're both going to be Goliath class (eventually) for FL. Makes more sense, IMO, for the Typhon to curb stomp an older model destroyer than an Orion.
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline rubixcube

  • best username ever
  • 28
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
It's possible the Eisenhower captain/admiral was just overconfident. The Typhon also carriers a larger fighter compliment, so it's possible for it to defeat an Orion given the right circumstances.
Stuff

 

Offline Hellstryker

  • waffles
  • 210
    • Skype
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
Thats interesting, I didn't realize there was an orion guarding Tombaugh station (maybe I should read the fs bible more thoroughly)
That brings the total number to 12:
GTD Galatea
GTD Bastion
GTD Intrepid
GTD Minnow
GTD Amadeus
GTD Nereid
GTD Legion
GTD Krios
GTD Soyakaze
GTD
GTD Myrmidon
GTD XXXX

Probably not too many more than that...





Is there any definitive proof that the Soyakaze or Krios are Orions? I don't remember them being depicted in the original Silent Threat.

As already mentioned, the Amadeus, Goliath, Eisenhower, and Minnow may not be Orions either, so that lowers the confirmed list to 10, possibly 8 if the ST destroyers aren't Orions.

 

Offline Black Wolf

  • Twisted Infinities
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • Hey! You! Get off-a my cloud!
    • Visit the TI homepage!
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
Kris is definitely an Orion, you see it in at least one Silent Threat mission.

"GTI Fighters  have disabled the Krios!" I hit a Red Alert bug my first play through, heard that briefing dozens and dozens of times before quitting in frustration. :P
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline Hellstryker

  • waffles
  • 210
    • Skype
Re: size of GTA/PVE/Lucifer fleets
Oh dear god, I remember now. I was 8 years old at the time and stuck in a half dead Medusa. That mission was horrible please no never again.