[Mika]

Would be interesting to know the background for that dark lord image. Photoshopped or real? Does BBC fall on the left side, I suppose they'll say they don't take sides, but is it really so?

Interestingly, UK's result mirrors ours which took place a couple of weeks ago - in our case the right wing conservatives also won the elections. I'm interested to see what happens with Scotland, things just got a bit more interesting in the European politics.

The general EU line seems quite left and libertarian to me, so right wing conservatives gathering support could be seen as a counter balance to that.

[Phantom Hoover]

An example of an exaggerated smear was David Colbourn's comment calling Hamza Yousif (think that was the name of the SNP candidate), "Abu Hamza" and accusing Mr Colbourn of comparing Mr Yousif to a terrorist. I don't think this was an accurate reflection of the scenario, but rather a misguided play on the name "Hamza", such as "Beckingham Palace" or someone being called Bruce Willis then nicknaming them John McClane.

The fact that you cannot see anything objectionable in comparing a Muslim MP to a militant Islamist because his name sounds a bit similar sums up why UKIP and its supporters are rightfully called racist.

[Phantom Hoover]

You think it's OK to call the SNP Nazis and compare them to terrorists, but when UKIP get called racist you can do nothing but whine about biased media narratives. Grow some ****ing self-awareness.

[Lowane]

Am I the only who finds it hilarious that Farage resigned, only to say he may stand again in the leader election in September? I mean, if you're going to resign, at least do it properly. Not this "Brb, I'm resigning, taking the summer off and then be back in September" 

I also think Ed would have made a great PM, I'll definitely miss him.

And if you disagree with me: Then debate me... one ... on ... one. 

The general EU line seems quite left and libertarian to me, so right wing conservatives gathering support could be seen as a counter balance to that.

I'm not sure, judging by recent results in Europe I wouldn't put Europe that far to the left. Maybe compared to America, but overall there seems to be a trend of countries electing a conservative government.

[Gee1337]

Don't get on your high horse Phantom, and calm down ffs...

I never said that I couldn't see anything objectionable. I said that I thought that the comparison was not an accurate reflection. By the logic you are advocating, you are saying that anyone called "Abu Hamza" is instantly a terrorist. "Abu Hamza" is actually just a name, nothing more or less. It just happened to be an infamous name, made infamous by bad deeds. Whereas I did say it was a play on the name "Hamza", I also said it was a MISGUIDED play,  which is because of the context. So really speaking it is wrongfully called racist.

A race is a white, black, mongaloid etc... I do not count religion as being "race" because religions are made of people from various "races". The fact that people seem to mix up race and religion is exactly why the term "racism" has been diluted. Also, I wasn't "whining", I was stating something that happened... media narratives are biased. If you cannot see this then you need to open your eyes! Disconnect from progressive liberal thinking and you will see the hypocrisy that it promotes. I suggest you have a look into what Pat Condell tells us about progressive liberalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXW-Ezs7fRo

I have nothing more to say on this!

[Phantom Hoover]

mongaloid

hahahahaha jesus

the best proof that ukip are racists trying to look respectable is a 5-minute conversation with any ukip voter

[headdie]

mongaloid

hahahahaha jesus

the best proof that ukip are racists trying to look respectable is a 5-minute conversation with any ukip voter

to be fair that isnt strictly speaking the party but the people they attract, while there is an argument that one attracts the other it dosnt prove the relationship by itself.

now before you get off on the wrong foot I agree that UKIP policies and rhetoric has racist leanings/tone but on a purely interlectual level the above needs to be pointed out

[Phantom Hoover]

To have a political party you do actually need people joining it, running for parliament for it and voting for it, and if those people are constantly showing themselves to be racist then the party itself is too.

[666maslo666]

To have a political party you do actually need people joining it, running for parliament for it and voting for it, and if those people are constantly showing themselves to be racist then the party itself is too.

The party is racist when its program is racist. I dont think UKIP is racist according to this criterion at all.

UKIP being the biggest anti-immigration party is going to attract some racists by definition. But that alone does not make the party racist, not unless the racists also have major influence in the party, which I doubt is the case.

[Phantom Hoover]

Yeah they pretty clearly do given the sheer number of influential members they had to expel because they made their racism public.

[headdie]

Yeah they pretty clearly do given the sheer number of influential members they had to expel because they made their racism public.

and there in is the problem, the ones we can confirm with discriminatory viewpoints have been expelled, which in itself is a proof of the opposite, the fact that we believe the rest are as bad but covering their asses is exactly that, a belief, until they in turn are proven otherwise, at which point the party expels them, and on it perpetuate.

Its a classic human problem and as someone who has received several rounds of therapy for clinical depression one I am very familiar with which is the distinction between fact and thought.  a fact is something we can objectively prove, events that are recorded to happen, numbers added together these can be proven and as such are facts.  Thoughts are how we piece these together, how we make sense of it all, thing is as they are affected by matters of perspective they can be wrong no matter how much we believe them to be true and the kicker is they are easier to believe than fact as they are a result of our natural thought process. (incidentally this is why the distinction is so important to depression and other illness because even when very wrong, thoughts are much more believable)

[karajorma]

When it comes to UKIP I will say that the suspension thing makes me suspect that they aren't like the BNP, openly racist amongst themselves in private and putting a non-racist face on it in public. More likely the members are simply racist on an ignorant personal level and every once in a while that slips out in a way they simply can't disguise their ignorance. You can't expose that by talking to their supporters (who suffer from the same problem, as Gee1337 just demonstrated), but if you amend Phantom Hoover's statement to

The best proof that UKIP are racists trying to look respectable is a 5-minute conversation with any ukip member

I suspect it would be bang on the money.

[Flipside]

I suppose the thing about UKIP is that it doesn't want to be a racist party, but the racists don't know that.

See, I'm not against concepts such as point-based immigration in certain cases etc, but I'm also pretty much pro-Europe in concept, though if it wants to become more politically centric instead of market-centric then I think I see a crisis coming with the way it manages itself, but I don't think that will be resolved by walking away from the deal.

The problem for me with UKIP was that Farage, whilst not someone who inspired confidence in me, at least gave the impression of trying to moderate the party, but whilst members were constantly rising into the public eye with racist comments, they could not break that association between UKIP and groups like the EDL and BNP.

I suspect like the other two groups, UKIP will, post election and sans Farage, slowly deflate like the other groups did. There is a warning in the rise of these Xenophobic aspects, but not really a threat to them.

I'm not saying Nationalist Parties cannot possibly get into power, look at Scotland, but you have to offer something that is unique, and the Conservatives took the wind clean out of UKIP's sails early in the election with offer of a Referendum, that's what it was all about so in a way UKIP achieved their main goal without even getting into Power.

[The E]

Farage being an utter hypocrite regarding the EU Parliament's corruption did not help his case in the least.

[Flipside]

Looking like Arthur Daley's somewhat shifty cousin didn't help him either

[Wobble73]

Looking like Arthur Daley's somewhat shifty cousin didn't help him either

Meaning Arthur Daley wasn't "Somewhat shifty" himself?

[rance]

On a related note, BNPs votes dropped by 99.7% this election. Makes me think all those racist voters must have voted for someone else, I wonder who?

[Gee1337]

This is part of the argument around what "racism" actually is! I have not said nor condone anything racist. What I despise is the dilution of the word to be used to smear people who have genuine concerns. I am not being ignorant about the situation and I voted for UKIP on a variety of points such as how they want the education system run, the energy situation, making sure our soldiers are properly equipped and not to enter wars that the likes of Tony Blair will never answer for.

Take the migrant crisis in the med now, caused by the bombing of Libya! It's things like this I want stopped. We have no place in the world to police it. UKIP are not the only party that have suffered from racist candidates. Both Labour and Tory have been guilty of this in the past, but no one bats an eyelid to them.

It makes me wonder how many people actually watched that Pat Condell video I posted. No one likes being branded a racist, but unfortunately for UKIP, the branding stuck mainly do to the repetition of accusations made against them and the interactions of a few bad eggs and over exaggeration by the media made it stick like sloppy faecal matter! The benchmark for mod-pop culture has clearly been set by a bunch of people who are out of touch of what the problems the country faces really are about, and it goes beyond immigration such as education, energy and the scam of global warming (watch me get ostracized for this one *sigh*) .

On another note, people need to stop making false accusations about the NHS going to pot just because the tories are in power. This is yet again more scare-mongering by progressive liberals. If I am proved wrong in five years time, I will hold my hands up and be humble enough to say that I was wrong, but until then I am not buying into the blatent BS being peddled by dis-gruntled socialists.

I'm not going to apologise for my views and anyone that accuses me of being racist needs to stop diluting the definition and throwing the brand around like it's going out of fashion, which is what has happened for so many years. My job is working with people which means that I meet a lot of people from all walks of life and from a variety of different countries and I have seen various patterns form from various people's social standings and backgrounds. I base my viewpoints on what I witness on a daily basis.

It's actually got the point where I cannot contribute to this thread any more so this will be my last post on this thread, due to the distortion of definitions, then being called "ignorant" for my definitions being very clear. If anything, the Pat Condell video I posted earlier has just been justified by a lot of the views made in this thread.

Time to get back to things more FS2!

Peace!

[rance]

EDIT: Deleted what I posted. I don't want to get into an argument about Global Warming.

[Phantom Hoover]

Just leave him. He's so wrong about everything he opens his trap about that you'd never be able to coax him into sanity without driving yourself mad from the effort.