[Kestrellius]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. Don't I get an introduction to a Shivan named Carl or something?

Anyway, I thought I'd post some rubbish on how I think we can explain sound in space, shockwaves, but more importantly, the apparent presence of friction in vacuum.

Put simply, space in Freespace acts like an atmosphere because it is an atmosphere. See, subspace is full of magic fairy dust that ever so conveniently acts just like air, except when we need it not to. It's not strictly speaking an atmosphere -- it's not even matter -- but it creates friction.

The reason realspace is full of it is because people keep poking holes in subspace. Now, during the early years of space travel, nobody'd been using subspace in Sol...well, possibly ever, but let's say since the Ancients. As a result, any subspace particles that had been present had long dissipated, and early human spacecraft were working with proper vacuum.

And then everything changed, when subspace opened.

I'd like to think this resulted in a lot of hilarious wars where people started shooting projectiles at each other from light-minutes away, not realizing why their bullets were gradually coming to a stop two miles from their ship.

Anyway. This was semi-inspired by the "silly laser idea" thread. And...also another thread about the same thing that I can't remember the name of. It was about lasers actually being laser-excited plasma guns. Which is pretty much how Star Wars does it. Well, occasionally with particle beams. But eh.

[BritishShivans]

carl is not here today but i am a shivan, do you want me to take a call for him?

[Kestrellius]

Hey, I read that thread. You are not a Shivan. You are a Shivan warship. You were very specific about that.

...and oddly reminiscent of Dave Strider. I think it's the lack of punctuation.

Also I realized there's a hole in this theory, which is that an atmosphere in space would completely bork orbital mechanics. Like, completely. Maybe...maybe subspace particles only effect things that have subspace drives? Admittedly, that raises the question of why long-range mass-drivers aren't being used, but on the other hand, there's never really been anything to suggest that they're not simply inferior to energy weapons...

[qwadtep]

An atmosphere would lead to much faster ships courtesy of having a medium to propel themselves against, and in turn ships would be much more aerodynamic. Doesn't really fit. It's better to just accept that things are the way they are because it's more fun that way.

I still wonder what sort of reasoning the GTVA might have had in phasing out the Avenger. Asides from it being an old gun.

It was probably simply outclassed by the Subach HL-7. As for the Maxim, I'd guess the violent recoil leads to a very short barrel life, so using it outside of a very narrow role (allowing anti-warship strikes from safe distance) would quickly bog down the logistics chain and maintenance crews. It butchers strike craft just fine, it just isn't economical to do so.

[Luis Dias]

It would also cause some havoc in planets' orbits and so on... not a good sight to see...

[Phantom Hoover]

planets are already moving through an atmosphere, they're used to it by now duh

[AdmiralRalwood]

As for the Maxim, I'd guess the violent recoil leads to a very short barrel life, so using it outside of a very narrow role (allowing anti-warship strikes from safe distance) would quickly bog down the logistics chain and maintenance crews. It butchers strike craft just fine, it just isn't economical to do so.

Hmm...

* AdmiralRalwood ponders introducing a mechanic whereby continuous Maxim fire increases the stress on the barrel, and giving it too much stress causes it to break mid-mission.

[Kestrellius]

Well the thing is I generally demand absolute internal consistency in fiction. That is to say, I don't accept the concept of the suspension of disbelief. Spaceships and aliens don't require suspension of disbelief, because this is a universe where spaceships and aliens are real. It's not our universe*. And I have no trouble believing that; it doesn't require me to stop thinking about its plausibility.

But, in general, physics are assumed to work in fictional universes the same way they do in ours, except when indicated otherwise. So we basically have a choice of either finding some way to explain the odd physics, which is what I'm trying to do, or say that physics don't work the same way in FS. But in that case, we have to figure out how physics do work.

...if anyone has questions, I will gladly rant about this for hours.

*Which is not to say that spaceships and aliens aren't real in our universe. But you get my point. I was going to say dragons and unicorns, but this was more fitting.

[General Battuta]

You know how physics work in FreeSpace; you can watch things move, you can open up the engine and examine the code. The text is the text!

[Kestrellius]

Well, but what we see in-game isn't everything. For the most obvious example, what effect does FSics (I'm gonna call it FSics) have on orbits? Or gravity? Or normal people going about their day on a planet? We know how spaceships function, but...

[General Battuta]

Nodes canonically don't seem to obey orbital mechanics.

Although I think I've put as much thought into the vagaries of FS canon as anyone on Earth by this point, ultimately we confront the fact that FreeSpace is a universe built on story logic to convey a narrative. It is not a mimesis of an internally consistent world, nor does most good fiction try to present any such critter.

[Kestrellius]

Hmmmm. Well, I'll keep working on coming up with an explanation that satisfactorily makes sense of every single gameplay mechanic, while fitting the story perfectly, having totally consistent internal logic, and inducing a constant feeling of bliss in anyone aware of it.

Also...am I posting poorly? Just, in general? I don't want to make a bad impression...

[General Battuta]

Nah, it's great to have discussion about stuff.

I think you will eventually come to peace with the fact that fictional words worlds are better off without attempting that kind of project. But that's just my hope as a writer!

[Kestrellius]

Well, in a lot of cases I'm pretty much fine with just sort of handwaving it as "there's an explanation but I don't feel like coming up with what it actually is". I'm just not okay with the notion that since it's fiction, it doesn't matter. I mean, think about the people stuck in a reality with natural laws that aren't consistent. ...granted that might be kind of cool, but whatever.

Edit: also relevant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJOwdrTA8Gw

this explains everything

[qwadtep]

As for the Maxim, I'd guess the violent recoil leads to a very short barrel life, so using it outside of a very narrow role (allowing anti-warship strikes from safe distance) would quickly bog down the logistics chain and maintenance crews. It butchers strike craft just fine, it just isn't economical to do so.

Hmm...

* AdmiralRalwood ponders introducing a mechanic whereby continuous Maxim fire increases the stress on the barrel, and giving it too much stress causes it to break mid-mission.

I doubt the Maxim is so poorly designed that it would break before depleting its ammo. It just might only last three or four missions before it's unable to operate to spec and the maintenance crew has to replace it. I recall that Rogue Squadron's V-wing had guns that overheat if you use the rapid-fire setting for more than a few seconds, though, which might be interesting.

I don't accept the concept of the suspension of disbelief. Spaceships and aliens don't require suspension of disbelief, because this is a universe where spaceships and aliens are real. It's not our universe*. And I have no trouble believing that; it doesn't require me to stop thinking about its plausibility.

That is by definition suspension of disbelief. Your problem isn't with suspension of disbelief, it's with the concept of simulation. You might just as soon question why FPS characters can cure buckshot to the chest with a box of moldy band-aids, or why Charizard doesn't accidentally burn down every gym.

[Klaustrophobia]

My personal canon states that ships behave as if they are in an atmosphere because of inertial dampeners (which are tenuously real canon - there's a cargo container in I forget what mission that contains them).  Inertial dampeners are required so as not to kill the pilots, but have the unavoidable side effect of slowing the ship.

[General Battuta]

The problem with that explanation is that there are situations where it would be both practical and advantageous to disable the dampeners, but nobody ever does.

[Klaustrophobia]

Inertial dampening is insanely complicated and can't be switched on and off at will (i.e., I don't challenge my internal canon hard enough to keep finding holes.  This is why beams can be massive lasers and also be visible). 

Some cutting-edge tech can do it on some fighters (glide).

[General Battuta]

I will stop if you want me to stop!

[General Battuta]

(beams are lightsabers)