Author Topic: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom  (Read 7389 times)

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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
And occasional friendly fire is certainly not immersion killing, it happens in reality surprisingly often.

Games are not reality. Reality is not inherently immersive. Creating Csikszentmihalyian flow is immersive. Good game design creates flow.

Having destructible ships full of players is not a bad game design, anymore than for example having a nuke in UT2004 makes for bad gameplay. I dont see players ragequitting when a friendly nuke accidentaly blows up a power node full of same-team players in UT. That whole objection does not make sense, especially the part about people not having reason for a boarding action just because there is a risk of being killed. No reason? How about getting the ship - the whole point of boarding actions?
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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
And once again a massively-hyped ~innovation~ of Star Citizen is reduced to speculation and faith in how CIG could possibly tune it to work with the rest of the game.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Having destructible ships full of players is not a bad game design, anymore than for example having a nuke in UT2004 makes for bad gameplay. I dont see players ragequitting when a friendly nuke accidentaly blows up a power node full of same-team players in UT. That whole objection does not make sense, especially the part about people not having reason for a boarding action just because there is a risk of being killed. No reason? How about getting the ship - the whole point of boarding actions?
Comparing teamkilling in Starcitizen to Unreal Tournament is retarded because there's no real deep consequence attached with it in UT, whereas in Starcitizen, there's permadeath, shiploss, credit-loss, etc.

The fact that you cannot make this distinction is a bit telling on your [in]ability to actually understand game design...
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Remember, immersion > fun is good game design.  So sayeth Our Lord Christ Roberts.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
If we've learned anything from EVE Online it's that every mechanic which could be used for griefing will be used for griefing, to the maximum possible extent.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Having destructible ships full of players is not a bad game design, anymore than for example having a nuke in UT2004 makes for bad gameplay. I dont see players ragequitting when a friendly nuke accidentaly blows up a power node full of same-team players in UT. That whole objection does not make sense, especially the part about people not having reason for a boarding action just because there is a risk of being killed. No reason? How about getting the ship - the whole point of boarding actions?
Comparing teamkilling in Starcitizen to Unreal Tournament is retarded because there's no real deep consequence attached with it in UT, whereas in Starcitizen, there's permadeath, shiploss, credit-loss, etc.

The fact that you cannot make this distinction is a bit telling on your [in]ability to actually understand game design...

There are many games with such more serious consequences for death (most MMOs), and they are doing just fine, so I dont think your example holds water. I think you just dont like MMOs, or the possibility of a more serious loss in game, but there are many players who dont mind it, and even demand it (you forgot the other side of the equation - the higher the stakes and risks, the sweetest the victory if you win).

You seem awfully sure you know the one and only way how games should be designed..
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
There are many games with such more serious consequences for death (most MMOs), and they are doing just fine
So why didn't you provide an example of widespread teamkilling in one of them, instead of Unreal Tournament?
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
You seem awfully sure you know the one and only way how games should be designed..
Hades has made the same amount of good games in the last 15 years as CR.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
There are many games with such more serious consequences for death (most MMOs), and they are doing just fine, so I dont think your example holds water. I think you just dont like MMOs, or the possibility of a more serious loss in game, but there are many players who dont mind it, and even demand it (you forgot the other side of the equation - the higher the stakes and risks, the sweetest the victory if you win).

You seem awfully sure you know the one and only way how games should be designed..

How much EVE Online have you played

 

Offline The E

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Games like EvE and Dark Souls and any of the other "real difficulties" and "real consequences" games have their audience. There are people who really really love these games and go incredibly deep in them.

But at the same time, these games are comparatively small affairs. They have an audience, but it's a niche one; SC, with all its ambitions, needs a large player base and you just don't get that when the people who are lucky to be able to put in two or three hours per week feel like they can't get ahead.

Elite Dangerous did one thing really right. It made simple flying fun. It gave the people who cannot afford to sink hours upon hours into the game something to do, be it space trucking or flying off into the deep, and thus these people stayed engaged and playing (even if only in solo).
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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Elite Dangerous, for reference, suffers from every kind of dumb griefing imaginable. Large stations were (and still are, to an extent) no-go zones in open play because people would ram you at any opportunity. Most players I've beaten in combat have logged out to avoid dying. You can bet Star Citizen will be even worse.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Elite Dangerous, for reference, suffers from every kind of dumb griefing imaginable. Large stations were (and still are, to an extent) no-go zones in open play because people would ram you at any opportunity. Most players I've beaten in combat have logged out to avoid dying. You can bet Star Citizen will be even worse.

I haven't seen any station griefing problems lately. All of the ramming and re-docking stuff has been fairly firmly squashed. But yeah, for a stretch it was quite possible to ram (or even shoot) players inside stations and suffer no consequences.

Combat logging, while irritating, isn't griefing. It mostly serves as an example that a large chunk of players are not willing to risk assets they took dozens or hundreds of hours to obtain. Given SC is planning to have even more serious consequences for getting blown up, they're going to have at least as hard of a time dealing with it.


 

Offline Hades

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
There are many games with such more serious consequences for death (most MMOs), and they are doing just fine, so I dont think your example holds water. I think you just dont like MMOs, or the possibility of a more serious loss in game, but there are many players who dont mind it, and even demand it (you forgot the other side of the equation - the higher the stakes and risks, the sweetest the victory if you win).

You seem awfully sure you know the one and only way how games should be designed..
I never said anything about how games should or shouldn't be made with consequences, that's where your lack of reading comprehension fails you. I was pointing out that griefing in a game being designed around such hard consequences is not the same thing as griefing in a game that has no real consequences. This is why the comparison between Starcitizen and Unreal Tournament doesn't work.

Also what the people said above (especially Aesaar) is true.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
There are many games with such more serious consequences for death (most MMOs), and they are doing just fine, so I dont think your example holds water. I think you just dont like MMOs, or the possibility of a more serious loss in game, but there are many players who dont mind it, and even demand it (you forgot the other side of the equation - the higher the stakes and risks, the sweetest the victory if you win).

You seem awfully sure you know the one and only way how games should be designed..
I never said anything about how games should or shouldn't be made with consequences, that's where your lack of reading comprehension fails you. I was pointing out that griefing in a game being designed around such hard consequences is not the same thing as griefing in a game that has no real consequences. This is why the comparison between Starcitizen and Unreal Tournament doesn't work.

Also what the people said above (especially Aesaar) is true.

Yeah, comparison to UT wasnt very good, comparison to other MMOs (such as Elite Dangerous) is better. They are still very good games despite the griefing - griefing is not some new problem unique to SC, or something game breaking that cannot be mitigated sufficiently. And I plan to play PU with a crew of friends, so griefing at least among the close team-mates wont be an issue for me.
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Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Never assume that anyone you can't punch in the face during the course of a normal day won't grief you.

Again, how much EVE have you played?
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Never assume that anyone you can't punch in the face during the course of a normal day won't grief you.

Again, how much EVE have you played?

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Offline karajorma

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Yeah, but quite a few people would have been slapped to death.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
That's not really a "but"

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
Definitely a feature, not a bug.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Star Citizen multi-crew demo from Gamescom
You forget that people would start griefing the slapping device. :p
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