Author Topic: Joystick turning lag  (Read 7334 times)

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Offline Avder

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Both of them crashed on the shivan gauntlet with the 2014 VP's running, and at the exact same time: the moment my first kill started to explode.  Have not ran it unmodded yet.  Will probably do that in a minute.

I can tell you the "nopoll" version is a lot more responsive.  The other one has response lag and the throttle movement is jerky.  In the nopoll version the ship is a lot more responsive and the throttle movement follows exactly where it is.  Whatever you're doing in that one, keep doing it, it's almost perfect.

Also the Roll/Throttle mixup is fixed.

 

Offline jr2

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Can you post the debug logs from those?  -DEBUG versions create fs2_open.log in the \Data folder.

EDIT: Oh, probably they will over-write any log created before, so post the log, then run the other version and post that log.

 

Offline z64555

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Ok. so it's not likely that the no-poll was the cause of the crashes. Expect to see the changes in 3.7.4.  :)
Secure the Source, Contain the Code, Protect the Project
chief1983

------------
funtapaz: Hunchon University biologists prove mankind is evolving to new, higher form of life, known as Homopithecus Juche.
z64555: s/J/Do
BotenAlfred: <funtapaz> Hunchon University biologists prove mankind is evolving to new, higher form of life, known as Homopithecus Douche.

 

Offline Avder

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Can you post the debug logs from those?  -DEBUG versions create fs2_open.log in the \Data folder.

EDIT: Oh, probably they will over-write any log created before, so post the log, then run the other version and post that log.

Did you want the log to go until I load the hangar, or until the game actually crashes?

 

Offline Avder

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Ok. so it's not likely that the no-poll was the cause of the crashes. Expect to see the changes in 3.7.4.  :)

Any chance I could get the joystick change in either the current final release or the current antipodes release?  I would love to be able to play with almost no joystick lag in either so I could play FS1 and 2 with the 2014 Media VP's in a non-debug executable.  Antipodes would actually be better because I noticed that there is just ever so slightly less lag when it's reading from SDL vs DirectInput.  like, just a tiny fraction, I could barely even notice it.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Did you want the log to go until I load the hangar, or until the game actually crashes?
Until the game actually crashes.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline z64555

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Ok. so it's not likely that the no-poll was the cause of the crashes. Expect to see the changes in 3.7.4.  :)

Any chance I could get the joystick change in either the current final release or the current antipodes release?  I would love to be able to play with almost no joystick lag in either so I could play FS1 and 2 with the 2014 Media VP's in a non-debug executable.  Antipodes would actually be better because I noticed that there is just ever so slightly less lag when it's reading from SDL vs DirectInput.  like, just a tiny fraction, I could barely even notice it.

This will be in 3.7.4, the next release build, and will be carried over into Antipodes. If anything at all, this will be additional motivation to get our (the SCP's) butts focused on antipodes.  :p
Secure the Source, Contain the Code, Protect the Project
chief1983

------------
funtapaz: Hunchon University biologists prove mankind is evolving to new, higher form of life, known as Homopithecus Juche.
z64555: s/J/Do
BotenAlfred: <funtapaz> Hunchon University biologists prove mankind is evolving to new, higher form of life, known as Homopithecus Douche.

 

Offline Avder

  • 25
Did you want the log to go until I load the hangar, or until the game actually crashes?
Until the game actually crashes.

Give me a few minutes.

 

Offline Avder

  • 25
Ok. so it's not likely that the no-poll was the cause of the crashes. Expect to see the changes in 3.7.4.  :)

Any chance I could get the joystick change in either the current final release or the current antipodes release?  I would love to be able to play with almost no joystick lag in either so I could play FS1 and 2 with the 2014 Media VP's in a non-debug executable.  Antipodes would actually be better because I noticed that there is just ever so slightly less lag when it's reading from SDL vs DirectInput.  like, just a tiny fraction, I could barely even notice it.

This will be in 3.7.4, the next release build, and will be carried over into Antipodes. If anything at all, this will be additional motivation to get our (the SCP's) butts focused on antipodes.  :p

When's the next release going to be?

And will the joystick change show up in the nightly builds soon?  I don't want to wait months and months to play the game more :(

 

Offline z64555

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This will be in 3.7.4, the next release build, and will be carried over into Antipodes. If anything at all, this will be additional motivation to get our (the SCP's) butts focused on antipodes.  :p

When's the next release going to be?

And will the joystick change show up in the nightly builds soon?  I don't want to wait months and months to play the game more :(

The 3.7.4 release will be Soon (TM). At the very least, the changes will show up in the next nightly as the fix just got merged into the codebase.
Secure the Source, Contain the Code, Protect the Project
chief1983

------------
funtapaz: Hunchon University biologists prove mankind is evolving to new, higher form of life, known as Homopithecus Juche.
z64555: s/J/Do
BotenAlfred: <funtapaz> Hunchon University biologists prove mankind is evolving to new, higher form of life, known as Homopithecus Douche.

  

Offline Avder

  • 25
Here are the logs.

[attachment deleted by nobody]

 

Offline Avder

  • 25
This will be in 3.7.4, the next release build, and will be carried over into Antipodes. If anything at all, this will be additional motivation to get our (the SCP's) butts focused on antipodes.  :p

When's the next release going to be?

And will the joystick change show up in the nightly builds soon?  I don't want to wait months and months to play the game more :(

The 3.7.4 release will be Soon (TM). At the very least, the changes will show up in the next nightly as the fix just got merged into the codebase.

I hope it's soon. I bet the community will as well once they know this change is in there.  And I will be downloading the next nightly build, which will hopefully let me really make some headway against the shivans  :nod:

Question, given that Diaspora is a heavy mod of FS2 Open, I assume this joystick lag will be present in that game as well?

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Question, given that Diaspora is a heavy mod of FS2 Open, I assume this joystick lag will be present in that game as well?
Yes, but the good news is that when the Nightly build containing the fix gets posted, you can copy that to your Diaspora folder and play with it instead.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Avder

  • 25
Question, given that Diaspora is a heavy mod of FS2 Open, I assume this joystick lag will be present in that game as well?
Yes, but the good news is that when the Nightly build containing the fix gets posted, you can copy that to your Diaspora folder and play with it instead.

Really?  Neat.  I would have figured Diaspora would have been a source mod rather than just a content mod.


 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Question, given that Diaspora is a heavy mod of FS2 Open, I assume this joystick lag will be present in that game as well?
Yes, but the good news is that when the Nightly build containing the fix gets posted, you can copy that to your Diaspora folder and play with it instead.

Really?  Neat.  I would have figured Diaspora would have been a source mod rather than just a content mod.
Every feature written for Diaspora was since merged back into mainline FSO some time ago.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Avder

  • 25
Just out of curiosity, what exactly are the differences between how the joystick was read before I reported this issue, how it was read in the first joypoll test build, and how it's now read in the final no-polling version?

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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AFAIK, there should be effectively no difference (on the user experience side, anyway) between the first joypoll test build and the final version of the patch as it got merged with master. The change was simply to get rid of the restriction that the joystick's status would only be updated ten times per second.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline z64555

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To further ellaborate, the second no-poll build featured a more trimmed down version of the first one. As AdmiralRalwood noted, there is no difference on the user's side between the two builds, but there is a difference on the code side.

Joystick polling is still done, but it is now done every frame vs. some arbitrarily set frequency. When the SDL_Everywhere changes, which are currently in the antipodes builds, finally get rolled into the main codebase, we'll switch to using an asynchronous method that SDL supports which will ultimately give us the fastest/smoothest response from joysticks.
Secure the Source, Contain the Code, Protect the Project
chief1983

------------
funtapaz: Hunchon University biologists prove mankind is evolving to new, higher form of life, known as Homopithecus Juche.
z64555: s/J/Do
BotenAlfred: <funtapaz> Hunchon University biologists prove mankind is evolving to new, higher form of life, known as Homopithecus Douche.

 

Offline Avder

  • 25
So then, what was the difference between the two m2436 builds?

Also would it be possible to roll the new joystick axis code into the current antipodes build manually?  It seemed like the current antipodes build was a little more responsive than the present final release, so I think that would result in an even greater gain as far as responsiveness goes.

As you can tell I'm really hyper vigilant about input lag.  I'm a nightmare for any friend of mine who's bought a TV and put it into game mode.  And I also spent hours tinkering with me NES emulator because I noticed a few frames of lag between when I hit the B button and when Megaman actually fires, hehe.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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So then, what was the difference between the two m2436 builds?
It was just a build with and without the polling timer removed to make absolutely sure that was the only difference being tested (to make sure it wasn't somehow responsible for your crash, which it wasn't).

It should be fairly trivial to apply the patch to Antipodes, since that specific piece of code looks identical. That being said, Antipodes is a fair ways behind master right now (178 commits), so it's probably just a matter of somebody finding the time to handle a merge.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.