Author Topic: More shootings (Read 14524 times)

Akalabeth Angel · **on:** December 02, 2015, 02:35:30 pm

Hey look, another mass shooting in the US. Remember when Columbine was a shock, not a weekly occurrence?

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-34967929

How many people need to die before a country so mired in fear, dehumanization and indifference grows the collective cultural and political will to start caring?

Personally I don't think there is any real number. If Sandy Hook didn't change anything, what would?

So the real question is, what could possibly stop this?

Turambar · **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2015, 02:47:03 pm

Mandatory Marijuana prescriptions with all gun sales.

If your test comes up negative, they take your gun away.

WeatherOp · **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2015, 02:56:36 pm

Possibly three shooters with body armor and from the news a bomb possibly being defused.

Sounds like a coordinated terrorist act and not crazy shooter. Now whether it's Islamic or white supremacist or the like who knows.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/reports-of-20-victims-wounded-in-shooting-in-san-bernardino-california/ar-AAfWsdM

Quote

A police spokeswoman told the Los Angeles Times that the suspects were heavily armed and possibly wearing body armor, and CBS reported that a bomb squad was on the scene, trying to defuse what was believed to be an explosive device.

Ghostavo · **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2015, 03:09:57 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/the-san-bernardino-mass-shooting-is-the-second-today-and-the-355th-this-year/

Weekly? Surely you mean daily.

Galemp · **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2015, 05:02:50 pm

NASA: ‘We Will Have A Mass Shooting On The Moon By 2055’

NGTM-1R · **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2015, 05:51:28 pm

Well, either they found these guys or some other lunatics with automatic weapons were running around San Bernadino and Redfield in a black SUV.

Considering it's Redfield, both are equally plausible in my opinion. (Where the devil did the San Bernadino PD get all these Lenco Bearcats? Surely they don't need this many normally.)

StarSlayer · **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2015, 06:26:18 pm

When the Iraq/Afghanistan commitments started winding down the federal government had a crap ton of these things surplus. A lot of them hadn't even been used and I remember the Homeland Security got a bunch. They might have started handing them out to local departments and agencies as well.

Bobboau · **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2015, 07:42:22 pm

When was the last time white supremacists actually did something other than jerked themselves off in the backwoods? Aside from that church shooting a few months ago I can't think of anything off the top of my head. But I suppose the BLM stuff could get them out of the woodwork.

also, didn't we conclude last time that the majority in America was fine with the mass shooting/gun trade off? I mean this happens often enough it hasn't been that long.

Polpolion · **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2015, 08:24:55 pm

What pisses me off most about these is that people get all high and mighty about statistically anomalous crazy people going on killing sprees when suicides and accidents make up the overwhelming majority of gun-caused deaths in the US. Reducing homicides much less random mass shootings might be a non-trivial problem, but making guns more difficult to access will have an immediate and noticeable impact on how guns harm normal people, not just the supremely unlucky.

NGTM-1R · **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2015, 08:35:30 pm

Quote from: Bobboau on December 02, 2015, 07:42:22 pm

When was the last time white supremacists actually did something other than jerked themselves off in the backwoods? Aside from that church shooting a few months ago I can't think of anything off the top of my head. But I suppose the BLM stuff could get them out of the woodwork.

Let's ask!

Five people were shot at a Black Lives Matter rally by a group of soverign citizen/white nationalist wingnuts on November 23rd, and were being arraigned yesterday.

And that's just the most recent and decent-scale incident people are being arrested for.

Bobboau · **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2015, 09:23:05 pm

I have heard a lot of ambiguity about that particular incident. I can understand why you might not want to indulge me here but if it wouldn't inconvenience you too much could I have another?

Bobboau · **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2015, 09:39:15 pm

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-up-to-20-shot-in-san-bernardino-active-shooter-sought-20151202-story.html

"Syed Farook"
gonna go out on a limb and say not white supremacists.

karajorma · **Reply #12 on:** December 02, 2015, 09:55:09 pm

From that report it doesn't look like terrorism either though. More like "Some people pissed me off so I'm going to kill them."

Bobboau · **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2015, 10:17:04 pm

One does not simply acquire and equip body armor and fully automatic weaponry for and with three people and massacre an entire office worth of people cause you're "pissed". Despite the the image to the contrary which we do our very best to project you cannot simply walk into a Walmart and buy a fully automatic assault rifle in the US. There are in exsistance gun regulations in the US, and while it's quite possible this guy owned such a weapon he had to have been registered and approved by the ATF IIRC. So not a heat of the moment type of thing.

NGTM-1R · **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2015, 11:17:46 pm

Quote from: Bobboau on December 02, 2015, 10:17:04 pm

One does not simply acquire and equip body armor and fully automatic weaponry for and with three people and massacre an entire office worth of people cause you're "pissed". Despite the the image to the contrary which we do our very best to project you cannot simply walk into a Walmart and buy a fully automatic assault rifle in the US. There are in exsistance gun regulations in the US, and while it's quite possible this guy owned such a weapon he had to have been registered and approved by the ATF IIRC. So not a heat of the moment type of thing.

Once you have it, you can use it in the heat of the moment any time you feel like it. This is kind of the problem with a lot of handgun killings. They're convenient.

Bobboau · **Reply #15 on:** December 02, 2015, 11:55:05 pm

yeah, but still you are going to call up your girlfriend and your buddy and be like "hey wanna go shoot up some kafirs? they just pissed me the **** off today, serving ham at their office holiday party"? and they'll just be like "sure"? I mean does that sound like somthing you think happened? And through going and getting the guns and putting on the body armor and making the bombs they supposedly had (or grabbing them, cause they just had them laying around) and driving there no one thinks to themselves, "Gee you know, I might be dead by sundown"? I mean unless the guy was just generically psycho... no... no that wouldn't explain the team, if it were spur of the moment there wouldn't be an assault team, this doesn't add up they had to have been planning this or something for a while.

I mean, he has a gun in his car, goes out and gets it and comes back in and shoots a few people cause they insulted him, sure I could see that. Hell, I could even see driving home and grabing an assault riffle he just happens to own coming back and shooting the place up. but with two other people? all the rest of the gear? you're nuts if you think that was off the top of his head.

Klaustrophobia · **Reply #16 on:** December 03, 2015, 08:15:04 am

"assault style" /= fully automatic. To the media it basically means anything that doesn't look like something from colonial times or the old west.

Bobboau · **Reply #17 on:** December 03, 2015, 08:16:15 am

my understanding was that they had fully automatic, I could very well be misinformed.

Klaustrophobia · **Reply #18 on:** December 03, 2015, 08:36:44 am

They might have, I don't know for absolute certain. But that link simply said "assault style" unless I missed something. Also, a highly detailed radio news segment on the way home this morning reported specific makes that were civilian-model Smith & Wesson .223 caliber AR-15s, citing the ATF as the source. So my understanding/assumption was semi-automatic.

jr2 · **Reply #19 on:** December 03, 2015, 09:07:15 am

You could arguably do much more damage with a semi-auto vs. a full-auto or burst weapon. You end up wasting a lot of rounds. If you keep cool and take each shot, instead of just spraying, you will take down more targets and be more likely to inflict more damage on the ones you hit.

I'm not sure which would be worse in a active shooter situation, however, I think it would boil down to the training and proficiency of the shooter, as you can control the full - auto / burst weapon with training and practice, however, you can also place shots with a semi-auto much faster and more accurately with training and practice. So, really, I don't know which is worse.

I know when I went through boot camp, they never let us use the burst function of our M-16A4s (we go to shoot full auto machine guns later in combat training), with the reason being that you should place each shot. I also know that they are switching from burst to full auto rifles, with the reason that the burst setting alters the amount of travel the trigger has to go for each shot in semi-auto (single-shot) mode due to how the burst mode is implemented (I remember that - you never knew when the hammer was going to fall when firing as it was different every time).

Anyways, to summarize: if the baddie isn't trained well, probably actually do less damage with full-auto as the weapon will travel high due to recoil and be more likely to jam and the shooter won't have practice clearing the weapon. If the baddie is trained has practiced, you are in a world of hurt no matter what fire mode they have available / choose.

To address some recent posts:

Fou can modify the firing pin on any semi-auto to go full auto by filing it down. (AFAIK there isn't a way to manufacture a semi-auto that can't be modified to do this?)

You can also squeeze the trigger so fast that it's pretty much the same as full auto except with more control over aim.

You can also bump-fire a semi-auto, turning it functionally into a full-auto weapon.

Bump-fire vs. fast semi auto shooter, side by side: