Author Topic: Let's talk, HLP!  (Read 29154 times)

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Offline JSRNerdo

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You'll never take me alive! I'll never talk! NEVER!

Also HI I'm a solo mod developer so basically just FREDer. One problem I have is that I want to have a dev blog for my thing, which would be cool considering the sort of hacks I have to do to get these missions working, but I also already have an announcement thread that also doubles as a demo release thread, and I worry that it would kinda get cluttered if I posted it there, but then if I make a new thread I'm littering the forums and argh. Maybe in the FREDding section? I dunno I think a in-development-mods section would be kinda neat.
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Offline General Battuta

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I somehow doubt this will actually go anywhere and I do not think it's THE solution. But I am so for this. There are so many benefits.. and if anything has helped SCP become sort of a "closed family" it's our adherence to internet forum traditions from the early 2000s.

Please god no.

 

Offline The E

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I too do not think that consolidating the public mod boards into one giant megaboard will help matters.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline General Battuta

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There's a great way to see all cool posts in all cool forums already! Everyone should use it! Click 'show unread posts since last visit'!

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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I'm not going to harp on the unpopular idea.. but there isn't a way to "show unread mod/campaign posts from all mod teams & general forum". It's all or nothing. (with the exception of ignoring specific boards I'm uninterested in.)
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Offline General Battuta

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Delete gendisc imo.

I would not want to lose project-specific boards because they produce some of the best threads I've read on this forum.

 

Offline Spoon

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Delete gendisc imo.

I would not want to lose project-specific boards because they produce some of the best threads I've read on this forum.
Agreed
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Mongoose

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While that is true, they also create their own little closed ecosystems that a new member, or even an established community member, could easily overlook entirely.  If I'm a newbie scrolling through the forum index, how is a folder named "Blue Planet" or "Wings of Dawn" going to jump out at me in any way without external prodding?  Unless I happen to see some sort of external post or highlight, I'll never think to look there.  Or as a personal example, I (very ashamedly) haven't yet played either WoD or the latest portion of BP, so I pretty much avoid those folders entirely for the sake of not being spoiled by a bunch of people talking about things I haven't experienced yet.   (Plus the War in Heaven discussion thread is an over 250-page threadnaught that's essentially impenetrable to new readers.)  As a result I know I've missed out on learning about really cool new features that both of your projects have introduced.  The Unread Posts listing isn't a great answer either, since then you're getting a huge unsorted list of everything that goes on, so a bunch of threads are going to slip through the cracks there too.  (It's also incompatible with how I tend to browse forums myself, but that's beside the point.)

Honestly, if we do need to keep the hosted folders (or at least a few of the more active ones), I would still highly suggest that we keep the idea of an All Releases folder that's a home for everything the community produces, coupled with a tagging mod to make it easy to sort by category.  And even if your project has its own individual folder, you'd still be highly encouraged to post a thread there if you released new content.  Even if it's a locked thread with a single-line blurb and a redirect to your own folder's thread, at least it means that someone can conceivably just follow that one folder and still keep on top of everything that's going on.  Think of it like a Highlights folder, only open to every content creator to post.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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If you delete Gen Disc then where would the trumps and "celebrity X is dead" posts live?

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Offline General Battuta

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There are no closed ecosystems created. You click on them to see what they're about. That's open.

If you're worried about impenetrably huge threadnaughts, then don't shove every hosted project into one forum where you'd need to have "BP Main Thread" "JAD Main Thread" and constantly bump topics like the BP Library instead of just leaving them pinned.

I really don't think this forum has any problem with mod discovery. The problem is getting people installed and playing.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Figured this was worth a separate post: whatever we do, we DESPERATELY need a way to consolidate and standardize FSO installation instructions.  This thread is the most recent example of a new user managing to find an outdated wiki page or thread that mentions long-obsolete FSO versions.  I changed the link there (and added a bit about the old Launcher not working post-Windows 7), but I know I'm not going to remember that particular page when the next version is released, and that goes for any other threads that link to 3.7.4 too.

 

Offline Mongoose

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There are no closed ecosystems created. You click on them to see what they're about. That's open.
But why would I bother clicking on the BP folder in the first place if I don't know anything about it?  What's going to draw me down there?  The people who post in any hosted project folder are going to be almost exclusively people who have already played or are playing that project, not necessarily new players.  The main point of this initiative is to improve the site so that content is far easier to discover and access and play.  And yes, the new front page design will hopefully go a long way towards accomplishing that, and an increased social media presence will be big, but even within the context of the forum itself we should be able to direct people to one place to keep up with major updates and new content.  I understand and agree with your point that dumping every single BP thread in amongst every other project's threads isn't a good way to go, but there's definitely a happy medium that can be found there.

 

Offline General Battuta

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People discover new mods by using the FSO Installer.

You might click on the Blue Planet subforum because you're scrolling through a list of hosted projects and clicking on what looks interesting. Or maybe you read Battuta's Guide to Finding Your Next Campaign in general FS.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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People discover new mods by using the FSO Installer.

You might click on the Blue Planet subforum because you're scrolling through a list of hosted projects and clicking on what looks interesting. Or maybe you read Battuta's Guide to Finding Your Next Campaign in general FS.

Psssshh

That guide was written by some yahoo and hasn't been updated in forever.   :p

(not-so-subtle-poke)
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - MixaelANITools - Between the Ashes - MjnMixael's Render Boutique - Mix-Hai Productions
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Offline Mongoose

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Right now the Installer provides a largely context-free lengthy checklist of download options which may or may not have a plaintext More Info description.  If you're installing them manually, there's little to sell one set of downloads over another, and if you install everything automatically, there's nothing prompting you to actually select and play one over the other.  This isn't to disparage what Goober has done with the Installer in any way, because it's a fantastic tool, but right now it's simply not designed with marketing purposes in mind.  When you look at something like Steam, there are all sorts of automatic recommendations generated based on games similar to those you've played recently, or games your friends have played recently, or highly-reviewed titles, or lists that certain personalities have curated, or so on.  Perhaps eventually the Installer or the Knossos project or both can incorporate some sort of ratings or recommendations system, but for right now we need to rely on external means to get people to play content.

As for your (excellent) thread, sadly we know how often people actually read stickies. :p

 
Personally I think a more comprehensive search feature is the most important, my first experience here:

Quote
Hmm, having an issue with X and questions about Y ... oh look a forum ... wow that's big, better use the search.

*does a few varied and quite unsuccessful searches*

Really?  I find it hard to believe that no one has asked about or looked for what I'm looking for, maybe it doesn't exist, but I'm persistent so ...

*creates account and asks questions, getting a link to what I was looking for*

And the problem here is, your more casual or less directly interested initial players are going to go "tch, they don't have any info for me and I can't figure out how to get this working, guess I'll play something else..."

EDIT: Also ... why can't you have both the project subforums and an auto-aggregation feature that populates a pinned main thread from each project into a master project release and info forum?

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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So I'm about to run out.. but I had sort of a random thought that may or may not go anywhere...

Is the Steam Workship not an option for us in terms of mods? Obviously there's some issues with the Steam version of FS, but is there nothing we can do there? Or is it even worth it to try and use Steam when it's flooded with thousands and thousands of games?
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - MixaelANITools - Between the Ashes - MjnMixael's Render Boutique - Mix-Hai Productions
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Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!

 

Offline General Battuta

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People discover new mods by using the FSO Installer.

You might click on the Blue Planet subforum because you're scrolling through a list of hosted projects and clicking on what looks interesting. Or maybe you read Battuta's Guide to Finding Your Next Campaign in general FS.

Psssshh

That guide was written by some yahoo and hasn't been updated in forever.   :p

(not-so-subtle-poke)

Write a blurb, I'll stick it in.

Right now the Installer provides a largely context-free lengthy checklist of download options which may or may not have a plaintext More Info description.  If you're installing them manually, there's little to sell one set of downloads over another, and if you install everything automatically, there's nothing prompting you to actually select and play one over the other.  This isn't to disparage what Goober has done with the Installer in any way, because it's a fantastic tool, but right now it's simply not designed with marketing purposes in mind.  When you look at something like Steam, there are all sorts of automatic recommendations generated based on games similar to those you've played recently, or games your friends have played recently, or highly-reviewed titles, or lists that certain personalities have curated, or so on.  Perhaps eventually the Installer or the Knossos project or both can incorporate some sort of ratings or recommendations system, but for right now we need to rely on external means to get people to play content.

As for your (excellent) thread, sadly we know how often people actually read stickies. :p

How would a giant mishmash forum with topics for each release be different from a list of forums for each release.

 
How would a giant mishmash forum with topics for each release be different from a list of forums for each release.

Because then they've got a (hopefully) up to date list of what has been worked on, starting with the most recent releases and therefore what people in this day and age would likely consider the most active project.

Personally, I think the best approach would be to customize the forum system so each major project board admin can mark or otherwise categorize the release thread, then just make a sort of "virtual" releases board that aggregates all these.  Fewer changes, less work, stick it at the top and we all win. ;)

 
I think merging the mod boards would be idiotic but it is true that the default presentation of all the different boards, 90% of which are dead, is really bad and ruins accessibility for new users who likely aren't logged in and don't know to use 'unread posts' anyway.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.