Author Topic: the # in the tech database  (Read 269 times)

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Offline Vidmaster

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the # in the tech database
While working on something, I came across a behavior that I did not expect. As you call know, the char # can be used to basically hide the rest of the string, making it possible to create ship variants in the tables or assign the same name multiple times in a mission. However, in the tech database, a ship named SF Dragon#weakened will appear as SF Dragon#weakened when given the tech-database flag. This behavior breaks the semantics usually associated with that character everywhere else in the game. I have no idea if this has been requested before but I would request a change of said behavior now, everything following the # should not be displayed to the user, even if that means visually duplicate entries in the tech db's list.

Is that doable?

Note: This is my first SCP feature request ever despite being a part of this community for probably a decade now and there was nothing about how to do such requests here, so I am hoping someone responds  :rolleyes: and tells me what happens next.
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Offline chief1983

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Re: the # in the tech database
I'm not sure I would call it 'breaking' semantics, as the very existence of those ships is supposed to be hidden from the user, hence why normally you would never give one the tech flag.  The fact that you would end up with visually identical entries is the clue that it wasn't designed to be used that way.  I can't comment as to the feasibility of doing something like this though, but it definitely sounds like a niche request to me.
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Offline The E

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Re: the # in the tech database
Yeah, the intent behind # and hiding stuff behind it is very clearly to create additional weapon or ship classes for balancing purposes. These classes exist only for the mission designer's benefit; their existence is something that should not be communicated to the players at all. The intent here is to give mission designers the ability to create ships or weapons that are visually identical to other ships or weapons, but with slightly tweaked stats to make them more usable in a given context.

So right now, the behaviour as it currently exists is very much "as designed" and I don't really see what sort of use case you have in mind that would justify a change. If you don't want to discuss this here for spoiler reasons, feel free to pm me.
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Re: the # in the tech database
Wait, can't you already give a techroom-specific name to stuff ? Like, since retail ? Wouldn't that take care of your problem ?

EDIT - Unless maybe we're talking about intelligence entries, which IIRC only have one name. The only use case I can think of right now is having an entry being "updated" during the campaign (is it possible to remove a tech entry), or be different in multiple campaigns, like for instance the entry on Shivans being different depending whether you are playing as a GTA, PVN or HoL pilot.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 05:09:38 pm by X3N0-Life-Form »

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: the # in the tech database
Not much need for spoilers considering that my goal was already guessed  :lol:

The only use case I can think of right now is having an entry being "updated" during the campaign (is it possible to remove a tech entry), or be different in multiple campaigns, like for instance the entry on Shivans being different depending whether you are playing as a GTA, PVN or HoL pilot.

This is one example, if you realize this for instance via Ship#T, Ship#P and Ship#H. Another would be if the mod is time-period spanning, think Ship#FS1 and Ship#FS2. Right now, you are forced to create different mods (and thus, tables) for these situations. Its really the only way for updating or changing the description that I see right now.

...the intent behind # and hiding stuff behind it is very clearly to create additional weapon or ship classes for balancing purposes.

This was certainly the original intent yes but SCP has made so much more things possible and I really see no harm done in making the semantics of # more consistent. I would furthermore argue that said intent only works out as long as you do not add such a ship to the tech database, adding that flag to the weak Dragon in FS1 retail or the terran Mara would make those entries appear. To be honest, I only see the potential benefits and no real drawbacks (bar implementation details I am not familar with).


So, what say you?
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Offline Vidmaster

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Re: the # in the tech database
Wait, can't you already give a techroom-specific name to stuff ? Like, since retail ? Wouldn't that take care of your problem ?

Hm, I do not know why I missed this to be honest, "+Tech Title:" does indeed work.

My original argument still stands however, I think # should be treated in a consistent way by the game engine and that way is to never show anything behind that character. The fact that there is a workaround however obviously makes this request to be of very low priority, a classical nice-to-have.
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Offline The E

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Re: the # in the tech database
Not much need for spoilers considering that my goal was already guessed  :lol:

The only use case I can think of right now is having an entry being "updated" during the campaign (is it possible to remove a tech entry), or be different in multiple campaigns, like for instance the entry on Shivans being different depending whether you are playing as a GTA, PVN or HoL pilot.

This is one example, if you realize this for instance via Ship#T, Ship#P and Ship#H. Another would be if the mod is time-period spanning, think Ship#FS1 and Ship#FS2. Right now, you are forced to create different mods (and thus, tables) for these situations. Its really the only way for updating or changing the description that I see right now.

...the intent behind # and hiding stuff behind it is very clearly to create additional weapon or ship classes for balancing purposes.

This was certainly the original intent yes but SCP has made so much more things possible and I really see no harm done in making the semantics of # more consistent. I would furthermore argue that said intent only works out as long as you do not add such a ship to the tech database, adding that flag to the weak Dragon in FS1 retail or the terran Mara would make those entries appear. To be honest, I only see the potential benefits and no real drawbacks (bar implementation details I am not familar with).


So, what say you?

You know, if your feature request would have been something like "I need a way to update a tech db entry, is there a more elegant way to do this than more ship classes", that would have been much clearer.

The thing is, when making a feature request, always try to tell us what you want to achieve rather than what you think might be the best way to do it. The way # is handled isn't inconsistent because it was never meant to be used in a way visible to the player. That you wanted to use it in such a way doesn't change this.

So no. We are not going to change this behaviour, but i will be looking into ways to make variant tech texts happen more easily than they are now.
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Offline Vidmaster

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Re: the # in the tech database
Thanks and noted.

The topic can be closed I suppose.
Devoted member of the Official Karajorma Fan Club (Founded and Led by Mobius).

Does crazy Software Engineering for a living, until he finally musters the courage to start building games for real. Might never happen.