Author Topic: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!  (Read 17273 times)

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Insert "Vorlons are better" :D

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
I have two common suggestions I would like to see in 3.7.0, but which I don't know how to tackle:

1) Can we please change the main screen "Continue" button to "Play Campaign", and the "Campaign" button to "Select Campaign"? Right now this is rather confusing for all new players.

That would require changing the interface art. I'm fine with changing it, I just don't have the skills either.

Quote
2) Can we please make HUD strings using capitals? It's looking really stupid in combination with mission updates and similar where they are used! Like "directives", "weapons", and so on.

I'm not certain I understand the problem. Are we talking about something we can solve by just editing strings.tbl?
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
I have two common suggestions I would like to see in 3.7.0, but which I don't know how to tackle:

1) Can we please change the main screen "Continue" button to "Play Campaign", and the "Campaign" button to "Select Campaign"? Right now this is rather confusing for all new players.

That would require changing the interface art. I'm fine with changing it, I just don't have the skills either.

Quote
2) Can we please make HUD strings using capitals? It's looking really stupid in combination with mission updates and similar where they are used! Like "directives", "weapons", and so on.

I'm not certain I understand the problem. Are we talking about something we can solve by just editing strings.tbl?

I have an idea about 1) and I am going to look into 2) later

I am also taking on post_processing.tbl
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 02:24:59 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
I have two common suggestions I would like to see in 3.7.0, but which I don't know how to tackle:

1) Can we please change the main screen "Continue" button to "Play Campaign", and the "Campaign" button to "Select Campaign"? Right now this is rather confusing for all new players.

That would require changing the interface art. I'm fine with changing it, I just don't have the skills either.

Quote
2) Can we please make HUD strings using capitals? It's looking really stupid in combination with mission updates and similar where they are used! Like "directives", "weapons", and so on.

I'm not certain I understand the problem. Are we talking about something we can solve by just editing strings.tbl?

I have an idea about 1) and I am going to look into 2) later

Great! Then I will not do anything about this until I hear back from you. If some graphic editing is needed for 1), I could do it. If 2) involves just some text editing in strings.tbl, it should be very easy!

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
So, this?

With HUG Gauge scaling disabled:


With HUD Gauge scaling enabled: (aka TBP's default)


As it gets the contents of the directives-box and the wing names in the Wingmen-box from the mission file, nothing I can do on the level of the strings.tbl.1

Now if these are okay, some edits need to be made to hud_gauages.tbl to alter the position of some text strings (see the "DMG" in the targeting window) ... which TBP does not have.2

1 - Can we use this opportunity to include wookiejedi's custom wingmen gauge by default? (Link)
2 - Can we use this opportunity to include Axem's message box gauge by default? (Link)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 04:11:00 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
So, this?

Looks great!

Quote
Now if these are okay, some edits need to be made to hud_gauages.tbl to alter the position of some text strings (see the "DMG" in the targeting window) ... which TBP does not have.2

If TBP does not have DMG, can you just change this to " "?

Quote
1 - Can we use this opportunity to include wookiejedi's custom wingmen gauge by default? (Link)
2 - Can we use this opportunity to include Axem's message box gauge by default? (Link)

Hm, from looking at the links I don't think I like these changes...

 

Offline emi_100

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Now if these are okay, some edits need to be made to hud_gauages.tbl to alter the position of some text strings (see the "DMG" in the targeting window) ... which TBP does not have.2

1 - Can we use this opportunity to include wookiejedi's custom wingmen gauge by default? (Link)
2 - Can we use this opportunity to include Axem's message box gauge by default? (Link)

All this changes looks great to me!  :yes:
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Quote
Now if these are okay, some edits need to be made to hud_gauages.tbl to alter the position of some text strings (see the "DMG" in the targeting window) ... which TBP does not have.2

If TBP does not have DMG, can you just change this to " "?

To clarify: TBP does not have hud_gauges.tbl (and so falls back to the FS2 retail defaults for positions of HUD elements). If it had, it would be trivial to adjust the position of the text strings that currently look a bit off position.
But if a hud_gauges.tbl were introduced, it would be backbone to do additional changes, such as a longer escort and directives list (which was in Zathras at one point) and improved scaling of the HUD for high resolutions.

Also, having a hud_gauges.tbl would provide a frame work for custom HUD gauges - somebody might want to take advantage of that  ;)

Quote
1 - Can we use this opportunity to include wookiejedi's custom wingmen gauge by default?
2 - Can we use this opportunity to include Axem's message box gauge by default?

Hm, from looking at the links I don't think I like these changes...

Case for 1:

wookiejedi's scripted gauge gets the entire name of wing and displays it, instead of the usual first 3 letters:


(its an older WIP shot, so it is not perfection - both in terms of position and brightness compared to the rest of the HUD)

This is a big boon for campaigns with non-standard wing names, like my Drums of War. Additionally the gauge provides more detailed information. Some adjustments need to be made because the non-retail "gunship"-type exists in TBP.


Case for 2:

Axem's message box provides a much better visual indicator that a message has been recieved; say nothing about improving readability of the message itself. In campaigns that don't have voice acting, curcial messages being missed is long-standing problem (the comm-beep can only take so far), which gets worse with increasing resolution pushing the 2-3 lines on top of the screen further into the territory of the peripheral vision, which is an issue to not a small number of people.

It's position can be adjusted ... BP has it between radar and reticle, BtA has it in the top left corner, I like to put it between the damage report and the reticle (that I have not added it to Drums of War is because of the absence of hud_gauges.tbl - neat, how that comes back around :) ).
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 05:08:52 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline wookieejedi

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
I’ll note that the wingmen gauge can also be configured to be in two different views, and the placement and other options can be specified or changed in the user settings section of the script file. For some additional info: The gauge shows a clear separation of in-mission, destroyed, and departed icons for each ship. It also gives a color gradient for each icon based on health and shows different icons between bombers and fighters. I should note that FotG and WoD both use this script, albeit in two different layouts. So if you didn’t want the gauge to look like those sticking with retail would be a pro in that regard.

I’d be happy to answer any other questions too.

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
To clarify: TBP does not have hud_gauges.tbl (and so falls back to the FS2 retail defaults for positions of HUD elements).

I guess it would be useful to add this then as all the other improvements you mention won't work without it anyway, no?

Quote
wookiejedi's scripted gauge gets the entire name of wing and displays it, instead of the usual first 3 letters:

This is great, but I don't like the complicated setup shown with different forms, colors and icons. But this could be unified?

Quote
It's position can be adjusted ... BP has it between radar and reticle, BtA has it in the top left corner, I like to put it between the damage report and the reticle...

In that case I suggest putting it below objectives and above the target window to the left. I feel in the middle between reticle and radar makes this area too cluttered! And at the top, like it is today, might indeed be too far off for people with large monitors. Which I don't have ;)...

 

Offline wookieejedi

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Quote

This is great, but I don't like the complicated setup shown with different forms, colors and icons. But this could be unified?


Yes, all of that is configurable by the user options setting in the script file. In other words folks can set it so it act/looks just like retail.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
To clarify: TBP does not have hud_gauges.tbl (and so falls back to the FS2 retail defaults for positions of HUD elements).

I guess it would be useful to add this then as all the other improvements you mention won't work without it anyway, no?

On strict technical terms, all I've mentioned can be done with with a -hdg.tbm and does not require a full hud_gauges.tbl. However, having it simplifies a lot - starting with updating the referrence resolution and aspect ratio (retail configuration scales up from 800x600 or 1024x768, if I am not mistaken), and ending with an easy to access to referrence for the postion of all the standard HUD gauges.

I only keep mentioning it because I really want to pawn this off to someone - :D - so I can focus on post_processing.tbl (mainly for the cloak/decloak effects, which could be used as a stop-gap for the Shadow fade-in/-out) and ... something else I am not quite ready to talk about yet.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Su-tehp

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
One detail I want to confirm: for Centauri ships, the prefix is CR for "Centauri Republic", not CRS for "Centauri Republic Ship"?

Because I'm noticing that the Yorktown-class in the screenshots above have a different naming convention from the Centauri ship. The class names for the Earth ships and Centauri ships are consistent (nation-state prefix without the "S" for "ship") while the ship name for the Centauri ship doesn't have a prefix at all while the Earth Alliance ship does (namely "EAS").

I'm wondering if this is an oversight or deliberate.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 08:25:38 pm by Su-tehp »
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Offline karajorma

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
I used to say this all the time to the Diaspora team - Don't ask me for my opinion on graphics or UI. If I'm spotting a problem with either, it should have been obvious to someone else long before I noticed it. :p

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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
One detail I want to confirm: for Centauri ships, the prefix is CR for "Centauri Republic", not CRS for "Centauri Republic Ship"?

Because I'm noticing that the Yorktown-class in the screenshots above have a different naming convention from the Centauri ship. The class names for the Earth ships and Centauri ships are consistent (nation-state prefix without the "S" for "ship") while the ship name for the Centauri ship doesn't have a prefix at all while the Earth Alliance ship does (namely "EAS").

I'm wondering if this is an oversight or deliberate.

It comes down the regime the individual FREDer applies.
I personally am not a fan of adding prefixes unless you want to express something that you cannot via the IFF-system or IFF-colour coding - As the Escort List only displays so many characters and losing 4 of those to a three letter prefix and a space is a bit of a waste.

There is also a destinction between the class, which get the relevant appreviated prefix for its home faction e.g. EA Hyperion, and the individual ship, which would get a prefix identifing it as part of a faction, e.g. EAS Yorktown (which is Hyperion-class heavy cruiser native to the Earth Alliance and an Earth Alliance Ship).
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 05:07:57 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Well 3.7.0 is coming along.  With it will be a lot of newly updated campaigns and missions as well as a ton of new improvements.





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Offline Iain Baker

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Well 3.7.0 is coming along.  With it will be a lot of newly updated campaigns and missions as well as a ton of new improvements.

 :) :) :) :yes: :yes: :yes:
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Offline starlord

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Ooh! Tales of Janus preserved? Me like!

By the way, anyone picked up miburo’s script for part 2 which I uploaded somewhere?

 
Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Yesit is Janus. Probably the hardest campaign to update.  All 20 missions.  Will be looking for some help play testing it.  Almost done squashing the errors.

 

Offline starlord

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Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
By the way, wasn’t slasher working on the earth alliance civil war at some point? Still remember the trailer on YouTube. It promised to be really exciting.