Author Topic: Knossos Headaches  (Read 468 times)

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Offline AV8R

  • 28
So I decided to give Knossos a try to simplify my setup (not that my Launcher 5.5g setup was problematic - it has served me reliably for well over a decade). So I copied my entire Freespace2 folder to my NAS for safekeeping (this version is very portable - even the registry settings) and I cleared my games folder of any trace of Freespace before downloading Knossos. I then downloaded and installed Knossos without issue and pointed it to my NAS where my original Freespace folder now resides (GOG version) and Knossos copied the FS2 files it needed to get itself going. So far so good.

Then I got into the Knossos interface and started downloading the MediaVPS 4.0, FSO and other required bits (why is the GOTY retail version required?). After this, the problems started. Since the installer automatically downloaded the latest release candidate EXE (19.0.0 RC1), none of the mods would load in Knossos. So. through the FSO app, I downloaded the latest stable release (3.8.0-3) and that at least got the retail versions working (Retail FS2 and Retail GOTY). But no matter what EXE I used, I could not get the MediaVPs 4.0 to load through Knossos.

Version 3.8.0 obviously wouldn't work as it's too old to use with MVPs 4.0 and 19.0.0 RC1 fails due to the joystick issue. So I told Knossos to download the latest nightly, of which it grabbed nightly 12/14/19. Yet, this nightly also crashes to the desktop when the joystick is plugged in - which is odd because I thought the joystick issue was fixed in the trunk for anything after roughly 12/1/2019. I wanted to download an earlier nightly but, unfortunately, I don't know how to get Knossos to let me download or manually install other nightly versions -  so I'm kind of stuck right now.

Any suggestions?

 

Offline Whitelight

  • 29
  • Thing, man like
1m using Knossos, and managed to get it to work there should be a window for this task.
Simpicity of character is the natural resualt of profound thought

 

Offline AV8R

  • 28
OK, so there is a bug in Knossos that ignores the EXE you choose to run. When I downloaded the latest nightly EXE, Knossos created a drop-down selection under "FSO Settings" so I could choose which SCP build I wanted to run with whatever MediaVPs I've selected. But it doesn't seem to work so well. If I choose the correct nightly from the drop-down that Knossos created labeled "FSO 3.8.1-20191214" and then I saved that choice and ran it, Knossos would completely ignore my choice and ran 19.0.0 RC1 instead - which, of course, crashes on startup.

But, if I go to the Browse button and manually dig down into the folders and select the correct nightly EXE, then it runs the correct EXE I selected and I can get the MediaVPs 4.0 to run just fine.

So... I'm still on the fence with Knossos at this point. While I like the streamlined folder and file storage layout it has, it is really not easy to manipulate manually. You can't manually download EXEs or MODs and place them in folders and use them within Knossos - it MUST download and install it for you or it won't work. Nor does it automatically select the proper EXE to run with the MOD you've selected. You still have to do that manually. So other than downloading and organizing MODs and EXEs for you in a neat way, I really don't see a benefit beyond that. Did the the old way have a steep learning curve? Sure. Did I have an edge since I already understand file storage, manipulation and text file editing? Absolutely. Will Launcher 5.5g at some point be deprecated and unusable? Maybe. But, when you understood it, not only did it gave you the flexibility to organize things the way you wanted, but it was extremely portable too - which made it easy to backup and restore if you needed to.

 

Offline DefCynodont119

  • 28
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I just use WX-launcher, It's way better and just as flexible as the 5.5g one anyway. (and more recently updated!)
Also 5.5g does have some issues with custom flags and the latest builds, and support for it was dropped like, 5 or 6 years ago I think.

You could either get WX-launcher https://github.com/scp-fs2open/wxLauncher/releases/tag/0.12.0-rc.2

Or ask one of the coders that made Knossos about this. . It is technically still in beta after all.
My gift from Freespace to Cities Skylines:  http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=639891299

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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OK, so there is a bug in Knossos that ignores the EXE you choose to run. When I downloaded the latest nightly EXE, Knossos created a drop-down selection under "FSO Settings" so I could choose which SCP build I wanted to run with whatever MediaVPs I've selected. But it doesn't seem to work so well. If I choose the correct nightly from the drop-down that Knossos created labeled "FSO 3.8.1-20191214" and then I saved that choice and ran it, Knossos would completely ignore my choice and ran 19.0.0 RC1 instead - which, of course, crashes on startup.

But, if I go to the Browse button and manually dig down into the folders and select the correct nightly EXE, then it runs the correct EXE I selected and I can get the MediaVPs 4.0 to run just fine.

So... I'm still on the fence with Knossos at this point. While I like the streamlined folder and file storage layout it has, it is really not easy to manipulate manually. You can't manually download EXEs or MODs and place them in folders and use them within Knossos - it MUST download and install it for you or it won't work. Nor does it automatically select the proper EXE to run with the MOD you've selected. You still have to do that manually. So other than downloading and organizing MODs and EXEs for you in a neat way, I really don't see a benefit beyond that. Did the the old way have a steep learning curve? Sure. Did I have an edge since I already understand file storage, manipulation and text file editing? Absolutely. Will Launcher 5.5g at some point be deprecated and unusable? Maybe. But, when you understood it, not only did it gave you the flexibility to organize things the way you wanted, but it was extremely portable too - which made it easy to backup and restore if you needed to.
The 4.0 MediaVPs have their FSO dependency set to ">= 19.0", which means Knossos isn't letting you run it with the nightly (without explicitly browsing to the executable, of course) because its version number is too low.

In other words: it's not a bug, it's a feature with poor user feedback.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline AV8R

  • 28
Understood. Can someone answer some other questions about Knossos:

1) Why is the GOTY Mission Pack required for FSOpen to run in Knossos?

2) How do you remove old or unwanted EXEs from Knossos?

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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The goty pack is only required for the MediaVPs to run. I set it up this way so that the MediaVPs will include the goty missions, but mods that require the MediaVPs won't.
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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2) How do you remove old or unwanted EXEs from Knossos?
Select the "Details" for FSO on your Home screen. Use the version selector dropdown on the top-left to pick the executable you don't want. Click "Options", then "Uninstall". Select another version. The old version is now gone.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Sutehp

  • 23
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but it's a Knossos question, or at least I recently got Knossos after being away from the HLP/Freespace modding scene for 15 years and and loving being able to play FS1 on the FS2 engine at long last. Anyway, m question is this: how do you change screen resolutions in FSOpen so that there aren't big black bars on either side of my screen on the interface pageslike the options menu, intelligence pages and briefings? I managed to do that for the FS1 port, but I forgot how and now I want to do the same thing for the other mods like the Ancient-Shivan War and Wings of Dawn.

Can anyone help me with this?

 
I think it's "Stretch interface to fill screen" in HUD section of FSO options.
Mito [PL] - Today at 8:52 PM
I was supposed to make a short presentation about basics of optical fibers and here I am, listening to Eurobeat while reading about quantum cryptography.

 
Check "Stretch interface to fit screen" under gameplay flags. Though as the name says this just stretches the image so everything is going to look fatter than it should(circles won't be circular, text will look pretty wide).
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Sutehp

  • 23
Check "Stretch interface to fit screen" under gameplay flags. Though as the name says this just stretches the image so everything is going to look fatter than it should(circles won't be circular, text will look pretty wide).

Yeah this was it. I saw "-stretch_menu" enabled in my FS1 port, and when I went to the gameplay flags, hit "Stretch interface to fit screen" and saw it enabled in Ancient-Shivan War as well, I knew that this was what I had done before.

As for stretching the image, I haven't found that to be a problem yet. And if it does become a problem, I can always switch it back. Thank you for the swift replies, gang!