Author Topic: Coronavirus Outbreak  (Read 28683 times)

0 Members and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Regardless of how the right wing is pushing for the line to go upwards, regardless of the cost in lives, despite all the Moloch worshipping that is disgustingly being played out in all right wing slash fascist newscasts, narratives and public office statements, from this country or that state or whatsoever, I also think that the economy cannot be forever shut down.

All of this conversation is skewed towards simplicity rather than truth. I'm pretty sure most people both think that 1, we should definitely quarantine while we have no means of protecting ourselves and keep vector barriers between workers, and 2, we can't stay home forever and ruin our economy to the point of destroying the entire society in a kind of a major depression the likes of which there is *no historical record*.

I think this is pretty consensual in everyone, but somehow the discussion has polarized into 2 major talking points: Either the economy can't "open up" because that's "murder", period, no caveats whatsoever, or the economy has to "open up at all costs and who cares if some elder people die, you apes wanna live forever?", and people keep bashing each other with these things instead of discussing the ways in which we can do both, that is, open up the economy with baby steps and always guaranteeing means of protection for every opened industry, and if some revolutionary steps need be made in some places, then so be it. This is the discussion we should be having, because the two other polarized speeches seem completely unrealistic to me.

 
But the discussion is already geared towards that? The whole point of having a quarantine now is to slowly re open things in the future when things die down. We're already seeing a bunch of european countries doing this (and possibly elsewhere, but I'm not keeping track of everywhere). The Netherlands is still very much in the mode of "People first, economy later". Children are slowly being sent back to school not becuase that would keep the economy going (it wouldn't!) but because it saves those children (and their parents) from the effects of being stuck at home all the time. It has now slowly become more clear that children are hardly affected by covid, so that's why those measures could be taken.

The discussion in the us is "polarized" becuase the US states that are affected at the moment don't seem at all ready for those baby steps. The discussion is not between "we can't open up the economy" and "we should open up the economy", it's whether or not that should be done right now. And it shouldn't. I don't exactly see the governors who enacted these measures in the US call for their constituents to start eating the rich.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 01:38:59 pm by -Joshua- »

 
All of this conversation is skewed towards simplicity rather than truth. I'm pretty sure most people both think that 1, we should definitely quarantine while we have no means of protecting ourselves and keep vector barriers between workers, and 2, we can't stay home forever and ruin our economy to the point of destroying the entire society in a kind of a major depression the likes of which there is *no historical record*.

Food, shelter, power -- all these essentials are available, because obviously keeping their supply secure through the shutdown has been the first priority. There is no reason that extending the shutdown indefinitely would "destroy society", except that society has been captured by the capitalist economy of infinite growth and the capital class think they may as well destroy it if it's not making their stock portfolios go up.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline IronBeer

  • 29
  • (Witty catchphrase)
    • Minecraft
Most tissues in a healthy organism do not grow indefinitely. They either stop growing upon maturity (nervous system, skeleton) or grow to replace losses (epithelium, blood).

There is a particular term for tissues that focus only own perpetual growth.
"I have approximate knowledge of many things."

Ridiculous, the Director's Cut

Starlancer Head Animations - Converted

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Joshua, your reasonable opinion wasn't on my sights, instead just look at the other two comments below yours, to see where the derailing towards useless pedantic narcissistic dribble immediately goes to. If they were politically inclined the other way, they would be rabbling about how this is all facilitating a communist takeover of the world, or some other inane thing. I do think, Joshua, that your thoughts are where the majority of people lie, but nowhere near where the majority of speech lies.

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline 666maslo666

  • 28
  • Artificial Neural Network
All of this conversation is skewed towards simplicity rather than truth. I'm pretty sure most people both think that 1, we should definitely quarantine while we have no means of protecting ourselves and keep vector barriers between workers, and 2, we can't stay home forever and ruin our economy to the point of destroying the entire society in a kind of a major depression the likes of which there is *no historical record*.

Food, shelter, power -- all these essentials are available, because obviously keeping their supply secure through the shutdown has been the first priority. There is no reason that extending the shutdown indefinitely would "destroy society", except that society has been captured by the capitalist economy of infinite growth and the capital class think they may as well destroy it if it's not making their stock portfolios go up.

You can't be serious. I am all for shutdown at this time, the negative effects of accumulated economic damage from the shutdown are very likely lower compared to the potential negatives from opening up too soon and letting the virus run rampant. But that is the situation today. Damage from economic shutdown increases as time goes on, potentially without bounds while damage from this virus is bounded. Indefinite shutdown is simply not an option, at some point the suffering caused by economic crisis of unprecedented magnitude WILL outweight the potential suffering caused by the virus. At that point the people would likely depose any government that would want to continue the shutdown, so it is not even a realistic possibility.

And this is not about economic systems. Any system would have large issues when faced with the kind of reduction in production as prolonged shutdown would cause. No system can conjure up wealth from thin air, wealth is created by people working and factories running.

Perhaps you are right that food, shelter, power and other bare necessities could be kept on for far longer than other things, altrough I would not count on it - such large systemic shocks to the economy that trump even the great depression would have unpredictable consequences in all sectors (and all over the globe).

But how isn't a society reduced to nothing more than bare necessities a ruined, destroyed society? It most definitely is. The economy is obviously FAR larger than just food, water and shelter. And no, it is not "muh capitalism" that pushes for this, it is the people, ordinary consumers like you and me.

EDIT: and as for infinite growth, obviously that is impossible however who knows how much growth is actually possible? Nobody knows for sure. Maybe humanity is destined to create a post-human galaxy group spanning society with trillions of individuals living for trillions of years until heat death of the universe. Maybe our growth has barely even begun.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 11:42:34 am by 666maslo666 »
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
The number of active COVID-19 cases in Tennessee is still rising.  If I get called back to work on May 4th (as my employer is currently planning), then I'm going to quit.  We either won't be past the peak or we'll be barely past the peak, and that's not the time to try to restart everything.  The peak is the point of maximum risk of exposure.

I won't sacrifice my parents for the benefit of capital.  I couldn't forgive myself if I got them infected in exchange for $16/hr.

 

Offline Solatar

  • 211
The number of active COVID-19 cases in Tennessee is still rising.  If I get called back to work on May 4th (as my employer is currently planning), then I'm going to quit.  We either won't be past the peak or we'll be barely past the peak, and that's not the time to try to restart everything.  The peak is the point of maximum risk of exposure.

I won't sacrifice my parents for the benefit of capital.  I couldn't forgive myself if I got them infected in exchange for $16/hr.

I live in Tennessee, and I'm supposed to go back to dine-in food service at a restaurant May 1st (in Sumner county, with all the infected nursing homes). I'm lucky to be in a financial position to be able to choose not to go back and risk it, but it's very obvious Tennessee is prioritizing business needs over anybody's safety.

EDIT: Scratch that, they're opening for dine in on Monday.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 04:27:02 pm by Solatar »

 
I live in Tennessee, and I'm supposed to go back to dine-in food service at a restaurant May 1st

Dine-in food service? You mean quite possibly the most hazardous and least essential form of food service?

This is why there's a debate of "stay closed" vs "full open", because the people in charge here can't see any middle ground. What it sounds like they're planning in Germany makes sense: do it slowly by steps, when they're sure it's safe.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

  • Cutscene Master
  • 212
  • Anims: 420, Cutscenes: 10, Mainhalls: 7, Logos: 52
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Mix-Hai Productions
Everything is red vs blue, even public health and safety. Oh, and only one can be right.

And there are things more important than living... like proving the other side wrong.
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - MixaelANITools - Between the Ashes - MjnMixael's Render Boutique - Mix-Hai Productions
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box - Photobucket Albums - Model Releases - Downloads
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 29
Everything is red vs blue, even public health and safety. Oh, and only one can be right.

And there are things more important than living... like proving the other side wrong.

I can't find the link, but I remember an article about one of the lockdown protests where one of the protesters carried a sign saying "Your health is not as important as my rights." When I hear about that ****, it makes my blood boil. Just who dafuq are these entitled c*nts who think they can demand the rest of us to die for their convenience? If I want to sacrifice myself for my principles, that's my business, but nobody has the right to demand my health or my death for principles their principles. These morons need to be told that straight up to their faces as many times as necessary until they get it through their thick skulls that they really are morally inferior and need to change for all our sakes.
Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
In the middle of a pandemic is exactly the right time to fire an expert on vaccines because he won't back up the god-emperor's bull**** on unproven drugs
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

  
PSA: Do not inject disinfectant into your lungs. Unfortunately I couldn't find a better channel than MSNBC, but Trump speaks for himself.

Quote
And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that. So that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds, sounds interesting to me.

 
And we made fun of Nero wanting to make his horse a senator.
Please, please explain to me why this man deserves your support and admiration. I know literal children who could do a better job.
For all the rightful criticism H.W. Bush got, the catastrophic errors in judgement, a lot of people had really positive things to say about him as a person. From Michelle Obama to Bill Clinton. He was a human being you could talk to.
This is... nuts. It's why despite the fact I have some religious convictions and center political beliefs, I can't endorse anyone in the Republic party. Maybe ever again. They're complicit in this PT Barnum circus.
But nope, GOTTA BEAT THOSE LIBS. Can't lose a single election or learn how to change. Just get even dumber!

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 29
PSA: Do not inject disinfectant into your lungs. Unfortunately I couldn't find a better channel than MSNBC, but Trump speaks for himself.

Quote
And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that. So that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds, sounds interesting to me.

JFC, this moron is actually suggesting injecting people with bleach to try to get rid of the coronavirus. I'll never forgive anyone who voted for Trump. Anybody who thought, even for a moment, that this clueless, childish, narcisistic brat-in-an-old-man's-body would make a good president should have their ass removed with a spoon and then have the bloody giblets force-fed to them.
Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 
I think I've finally managed to wrap my mind around how stupid this is. I was in a desensitized/dreamlike state at first, so I didn't fully grasp the idiocy. "Does a tremendous number on the lungs", no kidding.

 
10 years ago if you asked Republicans if there would ever be one of their party who would be dumb enough to think injecting cleaning solution into your lungs to fight a virus was a good idea, they'd laugh it off as some insane late night comedy joke. Insulting to their party's dignity.
And yet he still has 80% Republican support.
The frog is well and truly boiled now. It's just a little skeleton in there. Wondering why oh why it's so completely dead. 

 
Drinking bleach to own the libs.