[Iain Baker]

Me again 

Re where the table should live where it could be found easily - create a new post on here: https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=265.0

[Reythan]

Sorry for the delayed reply. I have been busy lately.

As to whether or not a ship can be in a table that is not specifically part of a campaign, I am not sure of that. Simple thing to test so I will definitely give it a go later this week. If it just so happens that it works out I will happily share a table that spans quite a number of mods that could be built upon. If it returns the error I think it might, I may have a workaround to still make it possible to build only one table.

I’m glad your enjoying it! Did you get a chance to test out the cockpits for either the Ulysses or Herc 2? Is it more along the lines of what you were originally thinking? If it’s the right approach that gives you the feeling of being in the ship without removing visibility I plan on applying the approach to all FS1 FS2 and BP flyable fighter and bombers including the Vasudans and the SF Mara, designing custom Cockpit models where necessary.

Thank you for the links you provided. They were definitely a big help.

Once I settle in on an approach for just having one large table I will post and share where you mentioned along with a guide for adding to the table as other mods are released or updated.

[Iain Baker]

Hi there, good to hear from you, and no worries, real life must come first.

A flight mechanics table that covers everything would be awesome, but I was warned by Orph that having too many ships in one table might make FSO crash and cry, so if that happens we would need to split it into several smaller ones - probably one for 'general' FS campaigns that would also include the smattering of non-standard models that those campaigns use; Vassago's Dirge, Uncharted territory etc., then one for BP, one for Shadow Genesis, one for Exile, one for Just Another Day etc. I'm already starting on doing this for Reunion and it seems to be working well so far.

As for the cockpit mods. The Herc 2 looked ok until I looked backwards, then it looked kinda goofy. I think what I was seeing was the engine exhaust grills 'through' the rest of the ship, but it lacked a sense of depth so it is hard to be sure. The Ulysses honestly looked terrible from every viewing angle, due, I suspect, to the relatively lower polly model it uses. This would presumably be a problem for other lower polly ship models too, of which there are still quite a few kicking around in various campaigns.

A minimalist generic cockpit might be a better way to go and definitely much easier. The poster of this video basically ported the Viper cockpit from Diaspora (BSG) which seems to work well enough without being obtrusive. I have asked him how he did it and I'm waiting to hear back (true at the time of writing) https://youtu.be/puU3ugrleWo

TBH, I'm going off cockpit mods and I'm beginning to think that FSO simply isn't set up to do them properly, since they always seem to have major issues.

The updated flight mechanics, however, are an absolute godsend and make a tangible improvement to gameplay. So far I have only really used glide and reverse thrust, but even these have made FS far more enjoyable by eliminating some of the biggest bugbears I had with FS since the first FS came out in '98. Thank you 

I'm more than happy to keep helping you this so let me know if there is anything I can do 

All the best,

Iain

[Iain Baker]

Hi there, any updates on this?

I tried using the perseus transparency download with Reunion and it works well - except the myrmidon cockpit was a mess 

Is there a way to separate out the cockpit mod part of it to leave only the flight mechanics? If I use VPView32 I can see the individual folders and files, and I can edit the tables in notepad, but I'm guessing I would need to turn these edited files back into a VP to get the -mod NAME command line thing to work? If so, do you know how to turn things into a VP and what program I would need to do this? Cheers :-)

Again, if there is anything I can do to help let me know :-)

[Reythan]

Hi Yes.

I am working on a mechanics only mod that will allow you to have one single tbm file that will work for any mod even if the ships are not in the mod. I have found a work around by creating a ship at the start of the tbm file read at before the game is booted but without overwriting it if it's already existing. It has worked on quite a few mods, but I get some bugs in others. I know exactly how to squash them, and why its happening but my work on this effort slowed to a crawl for the moment.

When I am back at my workstation in a week I will be picking right up where I left off. I want to be able to create a single growing tbm file that will be compatible with any mod for just the mechanics and separate out the cockpit mod for dedicated releases.

I still plan on making a guide on how to do all of this once I am back.

I took your criticisms and I have updated and AI upscaled the maps and models of the cockpits and tried to make them more true to what they would look like if you were actually inside one without looking too blocky.  Still a lot more work to be done, but it’s moving at least in a decent direction. Let me know your thoughts. Here is a current sample  https://youtu.be/w_-etHwehJk

Tough to model and texture from my laptop so once I get back I'll be able to clean things up more. Don't mind the missing hud info on the dash I will be fixing that soon.

[Iain Baker]

Fantastic news, thank you.


Re the Uly’s cockpit: It definitely looked better than before. Which got me thinking, if the ships textures have been AI upscaled, does this mean the world model looks better too? If so, it might be worth releasing that as an asset too 👍

[Reythan]

I had not that about actually applying the upscaling to the pof files visible in the world. I assumed someone already handled official model updates. My focus was mainly just the cockpits on that effort but if it’s something that’s really needed I can do that in the process of making all the cockpits. It would be a simple step to add. I can post some before and after pictures later and if it’s something worth pursuing I could tack it on the back end of my modding todos.

[Iain Baker]

That’s a good idea. I was thinking of doing the AI upscalling thing myself once I figure out how. I was mainly thinking of the older ship models that haven’t been updated in a while, such as the Uly, Lucifer, Argo etc as a stop-gap until true high-polly PBR versions get made. May I ask what AI software you used, how you did it etc.? PS - I have been using the file you shard before as a base for the reunion upgrade. Combining six-degrees of freedom movement with Fury AI creates some spectacular results - the shivans are almost  moving like they do in Bem C (only without the overclocked shields that make a basilisk as hard to kill as a seraphim and a seraphim about as resilient as a fenris   

[Iain Baker]

Hi there, just a nudge. How are you getting on with this? The flight mechanics section in particular?

[Reythan]

I fly back home next week, my tour got extended by almost two months so I'll finally be able to get back to this and wrap up the flight mechanics mod and make it a growing document that you can add to for all of your mods.

[Iain Baker]

Welcome back dude. I wondered why you went dark, now we know 👍 how was it?

FYI there have been some developments since we last spoke. I have been busy creating similar flight mechanics ship tables, (I’ll send them over) and Herkie is about to create one that combines the ships from FS1, FS2 and Reunion for me.

There is also a guy called Serial Mascot who is creating something similar with fully rendered cockpits and GXYZ flight mechanics.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCd3am0mJwO4XRXIoQbNu71w

[Iain Baker]

Hi dude, any updates on this? I have been trying to replicate this to create versions for the other campaigns - Exile, Reunion, FSPort, ST:R etc etc.

I have had mixed results - probably because I don't really know what I'm doing. Do you think you could give me a hand, since you seem to know what you are doing better than I?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

All the best,

Iain.

[Reythan]

Sorry about the super late reply. My work is off grid or out at sea so I haven't been available. I have been working on the models on my down time though.

I am going one ship at a time and am creating custom cockpit interiors and updating exterior textures with upscaling and touch ups. Since texture painting takes forever I'm just using colors to make my texture maps to get through all the modeling. Once I get through all of the modeling for the terran fighters I'll release a v0 mod and I'll slowly update it as I complete the bombers and vasudans. I as well am going in and updating the ship tables to allow for thrust in all directions and gliding. Once I complete the ships I'll go back and make the custom texture maps for the interiors.

Should have the fighters done in a month or so. For now here is a video of where I am at. https://youtu.be/T5AYG7See08

[Reythan]

As for the ship table to add thrust in all directions and glide if it helps I'll attach a document here that has every ship adjusted for FS2.

To use it just go to knossos>FS2 and create a folder (Call it whatever you like). In my case the file path is like so D:\Games\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Freespace 2\Knossos\FS2
Inside that folder create another folder titled data.
Inside of data create another folder titled tables
Inside of tables copy and paste the document attached in there.

To use it in FSOs FS2 open up knossos and click the details tab of the mod in this case Freespace upgrade media VPs
click on options
then click on FSO settings
then in custom flags box go all the way to the end and add -mod Enter name of folder you made with table here (in my case -mod ThrustMod)
Then in game you need to bind the newly added controls

To do this with other mods you will need to follow a similar process for the ships contained within that mod

[Iain Baker]

step-by-step guide to adding it to different campaigns and how to tweak the flight parameters can be found here: https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=98671.0

[Iain Baker]

Hi there, I just had a peak at the upscaled Ulysses in the F3 ship lab thingy. It’s certainly an improvement over the standard version. May I ask how you did it and how long it took?

Can I put in a request for what to upscale next? If so, then the Lucifer needs a bit of TLC. I know oddgrim is creating a new high polly version but that may be a while off and an upscaled Lucy might be just the thing as a stop-gap 👍