[Vertigo1]

Originally posted by Kazashi
Would a No-CD patch be viewed in the same light as downloading a rip of the game? To use a No-CD patch you have to have the original CD's to install....though I guess someone could borrow the game from elsewhere, install, patch, and give the CD's back.

You don't need the original CDs to run a no-CD patch.  Lets say this all together now friends.  ISO.  This is how linux is distributed online.  Download the ISO, burn the image to CD, install.  Its as simple as that.

Forget no-CD patches.  They're useless anyways since you can't use any update patches on the game once you apply the no-cd "patch".  Just get a CD-ROM emulator and rip the CD to your hard drive.  That way legalities are thrown out the window, and you can still play to your hearts content without scratching your precious CDs.  This is perfectly legal as long as you own the game. (just like ROMs)

[Kazashi]

Originally posted by MD-2389


You don't need the original CDs to run a no-CD patch.  Lets say this all together now friends.  ISO.  This is how linux is distributed online.  Download the ISO, burn the image to CD, install.  Its as simple as that.

Forget no-CD patches.  They're useless anyways since you can't use any update patches on the game once you apply the no-cd "patch".  Just get a CD-ROM emulator and rip the CD to your hard drive.  That way legalities are thrown out the window, and you can still play to your hearts content without scratching your precious CDs.  This is perfectly legal as long as you own the game. (just like ROMs)

Making CD images of CD's you own can be a good idea, however there is still the dubiousness concerning the ownership of the game - as you mentioned ISO's can be downloaded (though it is an impediment to those lacking in bandwidth), and games can still be borrowed. And when you live in an IT-demented country like ours, copying CD's in this manner is actually illegal without the express written permission of the original artists

[Vertigo1]

Its only illegal if you tamper with it (ala change the formats, etc....) or try to distribute it.

If it were illegal, then you wouldn't be able to buy Virtual CD off of the shelf.

[CP5670]

I personally have legally bought all of the games I own but get CD cracks anyway simply because I think it is just too much of a hassle to change the CDs every time. (especially since I play games in the night and it is difficult to see CD labels in a dark drawer after staring at a monitor) FS2 is one game I have never found such a patch for, but the CD checker in that is somewhat strange; missions sometimes load without any CD and sometimes do not. As for productivity (non-game) application cracks, that is entirely a different matter, but I won't get into that now.

[Kazashi]

Originally posted by CP5670
I personally have legally bought all of the games I own but get CD cracks anyway simply because I think it is just too much of a hassle to change the CDs every time.

That's why I will sometimes use such devices, it isn't exactly easy for me to change CD after CD when I am using multiple programs in one sitting.

If anyone's interested in the Australian handling of copyright law concerning CD's and computer software, then check out the guides on http://www.copyright.org.au/page3.htm, specifically the files on Computer Software, Games, and Music: Copying CD's. Basically, we can make a backup copy of software, provided that we don't have to crack any anti-copying measurements in the process. However, this does not apply to computer games and CD's - it is illegal to make a copy of a CD without written permission or the expiration of copyright (applies for both data and music CD's).

[Star Dragon]

Legally we are entitled to (1) back up of our existing media, but if we sell or give it away we must destroy the backup...

   This is posted all over at the store down the street from me that sells games for all formats (pc/consoles)...

Funny but I also think there is a caveat about is you had an acident you have to keep the disk to prove ownership (if you throw it out you gotta throw away your back up too).. Pardon me but isn't that why you have a back up? And why would you keep a messed up disk? Don't you have enough drink coasters from AOL???

[penguin]

:thepimp:
Might I suggest fs2_open?

[Knight Templar]

well everything iw as goin gto say, you guys covered heh....

stealth, you haven't finished FS2 campaign? Well be carefull , on the last level when the two sathanas's close in on the aquitane make sure u gaurd the vasudan destroyers while they fire the shivan defectors' enhanced beam cannons at the them.

It's a spectacualr fire fight

[Stryke 9]

1. FreeSpace 2 is open-source. That means freeware. They don't sell FS2 much of anywhere any more, only FS1. Any copies you see of FS2 for sale, Volition likely isn't getting the money, and it doesn't change the fact that the game has been declared open-source. In fact, not only is it freeware, but you can't get much freer than it- any derivatives, imitations, clones, reverse-compilations, or programming rips are the creator's, with Volition's blessing. Get it? There's only one illegal thing you CAN do with FreeSpace, and that's rip off the corporate logos from the opening animation. Hardly a capital crime, at that.

2. There isn't going to be an FS3. One would think all of you would have figured it out when the Volition dudes said something like "Well, we work for this other company now, and they don't care about FreeSpace, so there's not going to be a FreeSpace 3, and since we can't make much more money off of FS2 we're gonna open-source it to make it up to you."

3. FS2 is freeware. It's FREEWARE. That means you can legally distribute whatever you like of it. FS1 still seems to be getting sold quite a lot, tho, and the source hasn't been released, so THAT'S not freeware.

Learn some copyright law before preaching it, you hosers.

[Solatar]

I was bored, so I read the copyright agreement (Before the source release). It says that you can distribute it to firneds or aquantainces, free of charge. If somebody gave him a FREE copy of fs2. It wouldn't be warez.

[Knight Templar]

Bravo!

nice to see some thinking flying around here

[Kazashi]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
1. FreeSpace 2 is open-source. That means freeware. They don't sell FS2 much of anywhere any more, only FS1. Any copies you see of FS2 for sale, Volition likely isn't getting the money, and it doesn't change the fact that the game has been declared open-source. In fact, not only is it freeware, but you can't get much freer than it- any derivatives, imitations, clones, reverse-compilations, or programming rips are the creator's, with Volition's blessing. Get it? There's only one illegal thing you CAN do with FreeSpace, and that's rip off the corporate logos from the opening animation. Hardly a capital crime, at that.

2. There isn't going to be an FS3. One would think all of you would have figured it out when the Volition dudes said something like "Well, we work for this other company now, and they don't care about FreeSpace, so there's not going to be a FreeSpace 3, and since we can't make much more money off of FS2 we're gonna open-source it to make it up to you."

3. FS2 is freeware. It's FREEWARE. That means you can legally distribute whatever you like of it. FS1 still seems to be getting sold quite a lot, tho, and the source hasn't been released, so THAT'S not freeware.

Learn some copyright law before preaching it, you hosers.

Given your abuse directed at those "preaching" copyright law, I assume that I am most likely included as one of these hosers (whatever this word happens to mean this decade).  In an earlier post I did make the mention that the FS2 engine was freely available in the fact that it could be modified in such a way as to remove CD checks.

I then later posted the broader copyright legislation for my country, not specifically for FS2, but for copyrighted CD's in general, since the topic had moved to making CD images. Had I added something at the end of that spiel such as "Sorry boys and girls, that means you can't copy FS", then you'd have every right to go off your rocker.

Ok, now to make another assumption that since you are able to tell off others for entering the copyright debate you must be very familiar with copyright law, and since I must not be familiar with it at all since I'm a hoser, would you like to confirm that the FS2 copyright agreement stating that you can distribute it to others is the express written permission of the developers, saying that it can be copied in the methods mentioned previously?

[karajorma]

From the FS2 Readme
General Product License. This copy of FreeSpace 2 (the "Software") is
intended solely for your personal non-commercial home entertainment use.
You may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software,
except as permitted by law. Interplay Entertainment Corp. and its
licensors retain all right, title and interest in the Software including
all intellectual property rights embodied therein and derivatives thereof.
The Software, including, without limitation, all code, data structures,
characters, images, sounds, text, screens, game play, derivative works and
all other elements of the Software may not be copied, resold, rented,
leased, distributed (electronically or otherwise), used on a pay-per-play,
coin-op or other for-charge basis, or for any commercial purpose.  Any
permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be
withdrawn by Interplay Productions at any time. All rights not expressly
granted are reserved.

Doesn`t say anywhere that you can copy it and give it to your friends. In fact it says quite the reverse.

Furthermore although the source code has been released as freeware that doesn`t mean that the rest of the game automatically becomes freeware too.
 Not being a programmer I haven`t looked at any readme's included with the source but unless there is one that explicitly states that everything is freeware only the source code itself is freeware.

[CP5670]

I certainly do remember seeing that thing about giving copies to friends, but I cannot recall where exactly; perhaps it is in the installation...

Thing is, someone could just say that everyone in the world is his friend and use it as an excuse to put it on a warez site.

Although I have some sympathy with Stryke's post; this extreme anti-warez fervor is just silly.

[Solatar]

It says in the copyrights. in the installation. read on. I t says that you may distribute it to friends or aquantiances, free of charge.

And that part about saying everybody is your friend. If you don't know the person, how can they be your friend? Who cares? ANyway, give the guy a copy. He's you "Unnofficial" aquantaince. You know, him, just not personally. I think that knew it wasn't going to sell well (Because of interplay's lack of enthusiasim), so they planned to release the source. Making the game ALMOST freeware would give more people some fun.

[Stryke 9]

1. I said "hosers" because "hosers" is a cool word. I haven't the ****ingest what it means, but I know it's an insult of some sort (a Canadian sort, I think), so this was a good excuse to use it.

2. The original copyright is now defunct. It was the minute Volition released the source. Just because something once was copyrighted, doesn't mean that it always will be so long as a copy of the legalese remains. Think, dude, they couldn't very well hack your computer and change the wording, could they?

3. Open-source means that the source code, whole or in part, is free for distribution to anyone, and that the company relinquishes all rights to it. The texes and model files CAN remain proprietary (and the movies DID), but they didn't really in this case and the prog itself is free. HLP has been using the models and texes unauthorized for a very long time, I imagine since it came into being. Are you gonna have moral qualms about it now? If so, just delete the VP files and send everything else. The recipient can download one of many user campaigns, all of which are freeware, and get the VP files from someone with a less... blinkered view of copyright law.

That is all.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Hades
It says in the copyrights. in the installation. read on. I t says that you may distribute it to friends or aquantiances, free of charge.

Quote that part and give us an exact location, because to be honest, I don't believe it.

[Stryke 9]

I don't believe that, either. But it makes little difference.

[Solatar]

Okay, I'll reinstall tomorrow, I was going to do so anyway. I'll send you the whole copyright.

EDIT: Anyway, Freespace2 is freeware now. its open source. But I'll still post it for you.

[Galemp]

The CODE is free. You still need all the data files to run it.