[Knight Templar]

But they do, and they are.

memories of my 8th grade history/english teacher (jewish) flashing by.... i had no idea Jews were that into money until he informed me.. heh

sufficed to say, it was his first year teaching

[Stryke 9]

Templar: Actually, about that many Afghan deaths WERE reported... the articles just never exactly got headline coverage, and only were reported once, unlike stories about US citizen deaths. I think that story about the entire town being wiped out by American carpet-bombers was the only one that came close to a big story over here, and even that didn't last long.

[Knight Templar]

sorry, forgot to attach the sarcsm tags.

We would never self knowingly publicise our own stupidity and sheer evilness... perhaps one reason is we are always "the good guys"

well at least to ourselves....

[Stryke 9]

Like I said, we did publicize. It's less a conspiracy than the convienient fact that, 90% of the time, the American public as a mass doesn't give half a moldy rat **** about what happens to the rest of the world. News ain't news unless you can provoke people to care, and atrocities committed by US troops overseas only fits the bill 20 years after it happened.

[CODEDOG ND]

[sarcasm]Yea, but I still blame forgieners. [/sarcasm]

[ShadowWolf_IH]

i distinctly remember being finished with this.  Stryke you sound fairly educated.  It all boils down to a matter of heart, don't you think?  i know where mine is.  I fought for something i beleive in.  You do the same, in your own way.

Maybe i just think about things wrong when i decide that all of this is my backyard.  When i decide that even people i don't like are my neighbors, even at 1000 miles away.  Maybe i was wrong about doing everything i can to protect something.  Maybe i was wrong to try and stop the flow of cocaine into my home town.  maybe i was wrong trying to make things a little better for when my kids go to school.  Maybe i didn't make a difference.  Then again, i didn't sit there and ***** about what was wrong, i got up and did something.  Even if i failed.

i never said it was perfect.  but on the other hand, if i am going to ***** about something, then i am going to do one of two things, remove myself from the item that i ***** about, or try to change it.  You choose to see only the bad, i choose to see the good as well.

no one says anyone has to live here that doesn't want to be here.  you can always go elsewhere if it isn't good enough for you here.  

And you are right about marijuanna, and alcohol, and cigarettes.  Fortunately, i grew up, and away from them.  They should all be illegal as far as i am concerned.  We are also far too lax on crime.  Japan has a very low crime rate, because of how stiff the penalites are.  Start cutting hands off of theives and see how quickly burglary drops.  Start castrating people (which on the issue of rape is highly warranted as far as i am concerned) and see how fast rape drops.  

now, this is the last i will say on the subject.  You get a rebuttle.  Then we close it.  agreed?

[Stryke 9]

...Or just don't attempt to force people into masses of a hundred million, and see how few crimes happen in small, localized communities. The microstate theory has held out excellently so far- more than you can say for most government systems. But that's beside the point. It's inhuman to castrate people, it's twisted to lock them in cages, and it's even more so to do all this when it's unnecessary. You know, if you stick a hot iron in a kid's eyeballs every time he sucks his thumb, he'll learn to stop pretty fast. That doesn't mean that's how you teach him to stop sucking his thumb.





Who says I'm not doing anything about it? One thing to do about it is to teach people where the country can (at the very least) be improved (or, in this case, explore whether or not we should just toss the damn thing out and start from scratch). For one thing, what you're talking about is completely irrelevant- stopping rapacious drug dealers from using Machiavellian tricks to make themselves rich, and ruining lives in the process, is completely different from blowing up some Afghan farmhand for some politics he knows nothing about, is completely different from siccing racist, brutal cops on the people to gun down blacks, dissenters, and anyone else in the way, is completely different from using our global influence to rape small nations of their resources, as we once did of their manpower, and foist our ideas of government on them. And it's completely different from having a soulless, materialistic society where human contact is something to avoid, where everyone has to cover their ass to keep from getting sued for someone else's idiocy, and where the one goal in life is the aimless, endless accumulation of money. THESE are the things I'm fighting, these are the things thousands are, separated and unable to join forces due to the disarray modern political bull**** has left the revolutionary movement in. There is no "U.S" and "Non- U.S." There are some things worth preserving. THEY are not of interest here, and they can be dealt with far better, when the time comes. But now, it's time to destroy the greater evils of society, to attempt to really make things better for everyone, instead of nitpicking at what are, relatively speaking, little civic projects.  

Legalize the so-called victimless "crimes", and such things as the drug industry become a buyer's market. If some cartel or dealer is screwing the people, selling dangerous poisons as drugs, or messing up little kids, it won't be in operation for very long, for the same reason that any company shipping products not worth their cost will fail. Get rid of the money fetish, and suddenly decent teachers will work in the ghetto, or wherever they're needed, because they are looking for fulfillment in their work itself, not in how much imaginary green paper they can hoard.

[Mr. Vega]

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
Didn't we track some of his supporters to germany a year ago?  While i think this is deplorable, they have different views.  They are obviously supporters of osama.  Whether that support is direct, or simply beleifs.  If that support is direct, it will be uncovered and they will be dealt with.  If it is a matter of them beleiving in what he is doing.....you have to remember that the world of islam sees us as their great devil.  We stand with israel.  This isn't a war over borders, it's a holy war.

So you want another crusade? "An eye for an eye until the whole world goes blind?" This will just stir up more hatred, which leads to more hatred. The cycle goes on until we destroy each other. Give them love and forgiveness, and eventually, they will return the love and forgiveness.

While i am thoroughly disgusted and as enraged as any other who saw the towers collapse, if we think about it logically, he attacked us in a manner that was nearly military.  He was meaning to cripple the US.

Bull****. The WTC, as big as important as it is, constitutes a meer fraction of a fraction of our economy. But because of his huge sybolic presence, far more damage was done because it simply frightend us, which also drained our economy. Think of bin Laden's mentality. He grew up and lives where money has almost no meaning. Hell, he views our economy and concern over money as another reason for us to be Satan. He wanted to frighten us, make us pay. And he did. When you sing God Bless America every day and put your flag up because of 9/11, honestly, you aren't doing it because you love America suddenly when you feel threatened. Your message is: Don't screw with me, I'm American. Mess with me and I whoop you ass. We're freaking ignorant, and the rest of the world pays because of it.

Once again i can think of worse fates for him than the CIA can, but i have a hard time seeing this as an act of terror.  It wasn't meant to scare the United States or her people, it was meant to cripple us as a nation.  That makes it an act of war.  We call it terrorism because it wasn't purpetrated by a government.  Has anyone thought that maybe our own people who threw tea into Boston harbor were considered terrorists by King George III?

Point of view, my friend, something that my fellow Americans have completly forgotten. We don't always know best. Get over it.

As far as naming the child goes.  They think they are naming him after a hero.  And reguardless what we feel, Osama is a hero to those people.  Much as it pains me to admit it.

Again, point of view. I don't support giving him that name, for the child's sake, but that's something you don't have a right to decide over.

If i have offended anyone i will apologize now.  But this country was founded on freedom.  That tolerance has bitten us a few times, but we cannot foresake our foundations or our beliefs because of what one small group has done.  While I may disagree with them naming the child Osama bin Laden, i can be glad that they don't live in America, where they would be able to just do it.

Funny about that. We seem to do thing exactly opposite what we stand for. "Of course, our country is based on freedom and equality. One's trying to get away. Nail that nigger!" Of course, I never heard of anyone say that, but you get my point (and yes, I probably offended someone). Bottom line: Our true principles  and values reveal themselves in our actions, not our statements.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by Stryke 9

 You might as well say it's inhuman cruelty for a parent to name a kid something like "Gustavus", or (particularly) to teach the kid to like to read more than to play some stupid sport.

ehh.... Gustavus? wtf's wrong with Gustavus?

[CP5670]

There is nothing inherently wrong with doing what these people want to do, but it would probably be detrimental for both the parents and the child, since the parents would be likely put under constant surveillance and the child would probably be killed by a mob at an early age.

Pfft, names. Just give the damn kid a number, tattoo it as a barcode on his neck for reference, and you're done.

Ah, now this is the right idea; I was hoping someone would bring this up when I saw the first few posts.

THX-1138 kicks ass. And just think, there'd be one kid called AK-47 and another called B-52. That would be soooooo cool.

Yes, indeed! Actually, I would like a number such as 142857 or 52631578947368421...

Government regulation of the family is an infinitely greater evil than ANYTHING that a parent can do if they can do anything they want.

This has to be one of the stupidest things I have heard here. Who are you to decide what is "evil" and what is not?

So you want another crusade? "An eye for an eye until the whole world goes blind?" This will just stir up more hatred, which leads to more hatred. The cycle goes on until we destroy each other. Give them love and forgiveness, and eventually, they will return the love and forgiveness.

Actually, there will likely still be someone left; it is difficult to completely get rid of both sides in a conflict. As for the last statement, this is what that fool Gandhi tried to do 50 years ago, and look where it got his nation.

message is: Don't screw with me, I'm American. Mess with me and I whoop you ass.

Exactly, that's the way the world works. You don't like it, too bad.

[demon442]

Reading through this thread I can't help but share wEvil's, Rictor's, and stryke9's views.  And I have been giving serious thought to what wevil said about the many of us out there without any means of getting arround the US...that was really profound.


The only solution to all the hate, killing, corruption, and for all you brainwashed americans: terrorism is one final world war that wipes out mankind completely.

PS: If I offended you: Good.  I am me, you have no right to judge me to yourself or any others, your just like me: human.

[Rictor]

ShadowWolf if you still bother to read here:

look i know that you fought for America and that you must feel very proud, but isnt it better to keep your mind open to the possibility of you being wrong, just as i try to keep mine

you fought for your country cause you love it and want to defend the people in it. most people do it for that reason. mopst iraqis. most afgans. just as you see bin laden as a murdered so do other see bush.

no wonder the world is pissed. you set the rules and not the majority. *not sure* did you know that the us has troops in all sorts of foreign countries, even allied ones, like germany*not sure*. how would you feel if say germany wanted to put its troops in america. i'm pretty sure that you werent invited there either either.

[aldo_14]

If you fail to try and undertand the opposite sides' viewpoint, and fail to try and change it through changing yourself and realising your mistakes, then you give the other side justification for their feelings.

Terrorism is wrong, of course.... but ignoring the reasons for it justifies their actions to the terrorist.  Unfortunately, an eye for an eye approach to attacks doesn't seem to work in Israel, and it's not really worked for the US in their war against terrorism either.

I'd think it's more effective to remove the root causes of terrorism, and which make people become terrorists, than to try and kill an enemy that sees death as martyrdom. Because otherwise you'd just strengthen them by giving them more martyrs to attract support.

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by demon442
Reading through this thread I can't help but share wEvil's, Rictor's, and stryke9's views.  And I have been giving serious thought to what wevil said about the many of us out there without any means of getting arround the US...that was really profound.


The only solution to all the hate, killing, corruption, and for all you brainwashed americans: terrorism is one final world war that wipes out mankind completely.

PS: If I offended you: Good.  I am me, you have no right to judge me to yourself or any others, your just like me: human.

This is an instance where propaganda works. Where the often state controlled muslim media portrays the evil America war against Islam.

I say let them call their kid that and when nobody speaks to him and he is ridiculed, he will hate his parents.

Also on this very misinformed statement about troops in foreign countries. The US spends most of the time outside US PEACEKEEPING, its a NATO member, it keeps troops in Kuwait to defend against Iraq. The fact their are troops in allied countires is very logical and they were invited, helps move em to places where they are needed. Britian has bases in Germany, it all stems back to the cold war when we had Bases in West Germany to protect against attack from the Warsaw Pact. Its sheer lunacy to suggest they arent allowed their and arent welcome. I could write reams upon reams about this.

The Reasons we are RIGHT, is because we use war only when we have to. Saddamn has had since 1992 to comply with the Resolutions, technically we are still at war with Iraq, because only a ceasefire was signed, which he has broken. Also we havent even made a decision to attack him, no decision has been made.

The coalition so far, has only attacked during the war on terrorism, Afganistan really and removed the Taliban(much to the delight of the Afganis).

[an0n]

This is an instance where propaganda works. Where the often state controlled muslim media portrays the evil America war against Islam.

Another good example is every news report, news paper and Imperialist Kingdom pamphlet you've ever read.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

Thank you Rictor.  And now that i've had my day to settle down, (and trust me on this, it usually takes that long when i get riled up).  Let me try to explain this calmly.

I fought.  I'm not at all proud of what i did.  I think that there has got to be another way to get our point across.  The wanton taking of human life has got to stop somewhere.  There is no pride in what i've had to do.  The big lesson i discovered along the way, is that i was wonrg going in.  I thought of the glory of combat.  Now when i look back i find that the only real glory of combat is surviving it.  Do i agree that the world as we know it is pretty screwed? You're damned right i do.  Some things are worth fighting for.  Most things aren't.  I didn't fight so thati could keep my car from being stolen, that's replaceable.  Somewhere, across a line in dirt, a man was doing his job, and had to die.  He probably had a wife and kids, and he wouldn't be going home that night, simply because he had seen us.  He wasn't a military target.  He died to preserve operational security.  There is no honor in that.  When it comes down to the wire, i probably hate my own actions every bit as much as those of our terrorists.  And because i hate what i've done, but done what i had to, i get downright angry when i (probably mistakenly) see someone trodding all over that, as if the actions of people who did it created a welcome mat to wipe our feet on.  

Stryke.  I know that castration is inhuman.  no more so than rape.  To be perfectly honest, i abhor violence.  I hate it.  I hate what it does to both the victim and the perp.  I hope that you never have cause to study rape.  I hope that you never scrounge all of the books that you can so that you can help someone go from victim to survivor.  I hope that you never quit a job as a bouncer, just because you are her sense of security and 60 dollars for 5 hours work just isn't enough money when you see what it does to her to see that sense of security being threatened, even inadvertently.

now we are all fairly intelligent people, i don't think that (at the risk of sounding rude) people of lesser intelligence can create some of the things we create here.  As such, maybe if we all pay a little more attention (me included) to the spirit of a post, and not to whether or not every i is crossed and every t is dotted we would be better off.  At least in this little corner of our existence.

[Mr. Vega]

Originally posted by Zeronet


This is an instance where propaganda works. Where the often state controlled muslim media portrays the evil America war against Islam.

I say let them call their kid that and when nobody speaks to him and he is ridiculed, he will hate his parents.

Also on this very misinformed statement about troops in foreign countries. The US spends most of the time outside US PEACEKEEPING, its a NATO member, it keeps troops in Kuwait to defend against Iraq. The fact their are troops in allied countires is very logical and they were invited, helps move em to places where they are needed. Britian has bases in Germany, it all stems back to the cold war when we had Bases in West Germany to protect against attack from the Warsaw Pact. Its sheer lunacy to suggest they arent allowed their and arent welcome. I could write reams upon reams about this.

The Reasons we are RIGHT, is because we use war only when we have to. Saddamn has had since 1992 to comply with the Resolutions, technically we are still at war with Iraq, because only a ceasefire was signed, which he has broken. Also we havent even made a decision to attack him, no decision has been made.

The coalition so far, has only attacked during the war on terrorism, Afganistan really and removed the Taliban(much to the delight of the Afganis).

Yeah, and we don't have to go to war right now. Saddamn is a chicken. He wouldn't use chemical weapons during the Gulf War because he was afraid we would use nukes. He won't use them directly, and he knows if he gives them to a terrorist who does it for him, he'll be the first person on the the US's kill/damn to hell/who cares if will kill civillians list.

PROPHECY: If we invade Iraq, we'll get a rude shock like no other. Now lets see how good my ESP was working.

[an0n]

Originally posted by Mr. Vega
PROPHECY: If we invade Iraq, we'll get a rude shock like no other. Now lets see how good my ESP was working.

*waits 4 months*
*turns on ESPN*
*sees reports of a flourine gas attack at a Lakers game*

[aldo_14]

I don't think Sdaam Hussein would pose a credible threat to any ground forces, because he has relatively few trained loyal troops, and little by way of air defences.

The problem is the fallout within the Muslim world, who will see this as an attack on their religion.  Take, for example, Zimbabwe or North Korea, who could both be designated as legitmate targets - but have never been targeted or even threatened.  Or Communist Cuba.

The truth is, this whole Iraq thing has simply established a nice smokescreen for Osama Bin Laden - it's caused, I think, the redeployment of US troops to Qatar, et al, and that will rpobably give him leeway.

[CODEDOG ND]

Originally posted by Rictor

 how would you feel if say germany wanted to put its troops in america.  

Ummm....Germany has some of it's airforce stationed in Nevada.