[Stryke 9]

Nietzche once said "God is dead". He was full of it, wasn't he? However, the question still remains; is there a higher existence, that created this one? What is he/she/it/they like? Does whatever God there is out there really wanna hear us talking about how great he is, when we don't know anything about it, and complaining to Him/whatever about how we aren't getting any, have pimples, a dead grandparent, etc.?

I personally have my reservations about believing in a deity who seems so utterly irrational and even malevolent as the Jewish and Christian ones, and, due to lack of really helpful materials, don't feel I have enough information about any other religions but Taoism to be able to dismiss or accept them. For some reason, I just find it unlikely that literature that recommends essentially drinking mercury to live forever is all that reliable on much else. The Islamic one seems just about the same as the Christian and Judaic, and just the same spiteful sort that, even if it did exist, I wouldn't worship out of principle.
However, since it doesn't seem a topic that anyone really CAN know anything about, I don't completely disregard any of these possibilities. After all, the idea that the Universe once could fit on the head of a pin, and despite a lack of any outside forces, one day just exploded and became this one seems to me quite as improbable as manna falling from heaven.

Your turn. Is there a God? What kind? What do you believe in, and why?

Anyone who says that they won't answer because this is something unknowable, or explains their beliefs with something like "I just have faith, in spite of logic", is a cop-out and will be beaten senseless with a goat.

[Bobboau]

nope

[Styxx]

Okay, this won't be closed right away, but I've put it on the highest HAMCON level possible. Anyone screws up, offends anyone, or start off one of the paths that we ran down oh so often on these last two months, and it's 0wnagE time.

[CP5670]

No god, nothing, and the higher reality that forms the substratum of this one is a synthetic all-encompassing scientific theory. God is indeed dead.

Anyone who says that they won't answer because this is something unknowable, or explains their beliefs with something like "I just have faith, in spite of logic", is a cop-out and will be beaten senseless with a goat.

[Mr. Vega]

I do believe in God, though in what form or nature or even number I can only guess.

Interesting how region has evolved. Many powerful exotic gods(Egyptians) to many humanlike gods (Greeks or Romans) to one powerful God (the big three)

Science covers only the logical area of the human brain. It does NOT cover the emotional or spiritual part. That only religion will explain.

Religion and creation is one of the most difficult ares of understanding for us humans. A challenge.

Oh, and CP, no offense but could you please not put a happy smilie after saying God is indeed dead.

[Bobboau]

what about emotion do you think is bond science to explain, "spirit" is the same thing as emotion, only fear will make you insist on it being some majical nonunderstandable thing that'll let you live forever
and God is not dead, something that doesn't exsist can't die

[demon442]

I choose not to believe in a god(or group there of) because 1: It's so illogical and irrational to believe (in christianity's case) in an invisible man that lives in the clouds and whatches your every move. and 2: No one in recoreded history has ever proved one way or another that there is or isn't a god(or group there of).  I simply go about my day to day life ignoring the people that choose to live their life by a book.  And I know all you religious people are thinking "He's going to hell.", we'll just find out when that day comes, woun't we?  I live in the south where religion is very, very common and i've thought about my actions and choices quite a bit,  but I wouldn't change a thing about the way I think or live.

I've got quite a few theories on religion, and it's beginings...I doubt most of you are prepaired to hear them with a truely open mind.

And as Manson said so well: "...I'm not a slave to a god that dosen't exist..."


EDIT so not to offend anybody: If you chose to be religious, go right ahead.  I'm not gonna stop you.


Nietczhe f***in RULES!!

[an0n]

Taoism kicks ass.

But anyway. Say that the universe is infinite and timless. Then eventually, due to the very simple laws of probability, there will come a point when there is a God and a point when God dies. Simple as that.

[Mr. Vega]

Given, God is not dead, but is again taking a new form to us.

The notion of an all powerful being(s)ended (somewhat) long ago. Right now until some brilliant philosipher makes a a contribution, who we are remains a mystery and will remain a mystery. You could think up a hundred theories. Ex. God is a collective shadow of our souls. And that could be true. Philosiphy has much more to discover than science ever will.

[CP5670]

But anyway. Say that the universe is infinite and timless. Then eventually, due to the very simple laws of probability, there will come a point when there is a God and a point when God dies. Simple as that.

But then one could also argue that there will be a time when god both exists and does not exist simultaneously (which is logically contradictory), and there will also be a time for any other conceivable event, even, say, such as a vasudan taking a terran head out of a headz box, putting it on a nearby kitchen counter, talking to it and walking away.

Science covers only the logical area of the human brain. It does NOT cover the emotional or spiritual part. That only religion will explain.

They're the same thing though; the universe is one big system, and nothing can be completely seperated from anything else. As Hegel said, the truth is the whole, and thus the final theory must have everything in it.

Oh, and CP, no offense but could you please not put a happy smilie after saying God is indeed dead.

I will remove it if any more people say to, but I actually dropped it in there so as to be less offensive. Although it is something to be jubiliant about anyway were it true.

Philosiphy has much more to discover than science ever will.

The two are the same thing; heck, physics was originally called natural philosophy. The job of science is to cover everything. Although I am planning to go into both mathematics and philosophy later on.

[Mr. Vega]

1.When did God become controlled by quantum mechanics?

There are a thousand to interpret something, as shown from these arguments.

2. Correct. I was wrong in some respects.

3. Ok, sorry, took it the wrong way.

[CP5670]

1.When did God become controlled by quantum mechanics?

He doesn't have to be, but then we must find a new theory that can also explain his actions along with everything else.

3. Ok, sorry, took it the wrong way.

No problem.

I'm off to do my usual gaming now; let's see if this thread is still open when I return.

[Whitelight]

I to believe there is a god, ( higher order ) The power begins from within,  and it doesen`t bother me that some people do not believe, heck even my brother does not believe in god or the devil, but I still love him just the same..

[CP5670]

Just noticed that I passed 3000 posts; yes!

it doesen`t bother me that some people do not believe, heck even my brother does not believe in god or the devil, but I still love him just the same..

That certainly makes sense.

[Su-tehp]

This is obviously a sensitive topic (especially nowadays), and I do have something to add to this conversation about God, the Universe and everything.

But first, I gotta go out for a smoke.

We all know to behave ourselves here or else Admin will own the topic and close it (and if anyone should misbehave, Admin will be right to do so). Here's hoping the topic will still be open when I get back.

And I promise to keep my religious hangups out of this thread when I do speak. (Translation: I'm NOT going to rant about the Catholic Church!)

After all, this is a philosophical discussion, not a religious or political one, so I'm going to speak my comments accordingly.

[CP5670]

How about we continue this from where that last 1000+ post topic left off? (or on second though maybe not; it was getting somewhat repetitive later on)

[demon442]

I'm surprized this thread isn't 0wnx0red by now...

Oh and CP, I agree(although I dont remember that thread[don't tell me about it]).

[vadar_1]

Wanna know what god is to the science world? Just something people beleave in so they wont kill themselves. A method, if you will, to keep the masses in line. Thats religion summed up.

[CP5670]

Wanna know what god is to the science world? Just something people beleave in so they wont kill themselves. A method, if you will, to keep the masses in line. Thats religion summed up.

Exactly. It has now begun to fade away, while the morals will probably remain for a bit longer.

Oh and CP, I agree(although I dont remember that thread[don't tell me about it]).

You can find out about it here: (click at your own risk )
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,7527.0.html

[Stryke 9]

Vadar: actually, a good deal of your most famous scientists believed devoutly in a God, and as a group atheism seems to run no higher than in any other category. Due to the mechanics of faith, it's fairly easy to reconcile belief in a God with belief in the fact that if you drop something over a source of gravity, it will fall, and discard anything on either side that doesn't mesh. I mean, people talk about how evolution is a fraud, yes, but we also threw out the idea that the Sun orbits the Earth, because generally few people can find a way to believe in either one and still have their religious/scientific worldview function.

Actually what Nietzche meant by that supposedly comes out to more of a "God is irrelevant nowadays, and we don't need him". Of course, the context he wrote it in makes no sense, and if you read the book he said it in, he sounds more like he's just trying to shock the easily shocked than like he's actually being meaningful.
Oh, and given that the Universe is infinite (which it seems to be), than all that is indeed possible. However, it's not likely that if there is an immortal being (if whatever it is IS immortal), it will eventually die, same as it's unlikely that the Second Law of Thermodynamics (or any other physical constant) will change. Physics is NOT philosophy, by the way; science is an examination, with the implements we have, of how the components of the Universe work in order to expand that which we know; philosophy is the way of, by sheer reasoning, putting what we know together to form a coherent picture.


Styxx: Anyone who is so easily offended as to be shocked that others have different beliefs and ideas of their own has no business in a thread that involves thought, and should have better sense than to show up here. Same with trolls that just wanna insult people's ideologies. In fact, both are such repulsive sorts that they're not worth taking into consideration; I don't see why they can't be just recognized for the distasteful types that they are and ignored. If we can't have the occasional thread where people can discuss things that are truly significant in life, than this OT forum is absolutely worthless and should be deleted. There's very little redeeming value to the 500th word game or movie criticism on this forum- they're all the same, and I think somehting different is what is needed right now.