Author Topic: World of Warships - Now Available  (Read 280359 times)

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
I distinctly remember reading reports of Iowa accuracy made in 1945 and it sure as hell wasn't half a mile.

Whatever you read, I'm going off her sole combat performance.

Since I've already written it up once, I'll quote the relevant portion of the Truk fight here.

Quote
At 1300, with Katori back underway and showing very little sign of damage according to American observers, over the horizon comes a surface sweep for escaping warships, centered on Iowa-class battleships USS Iowa and USS New Jersey. Maikaze, Katori, and Shonan Maru No. 15 charge the American battlewagons.

New Jersey engages Maikaze with her secondary and primary battery at the short range of only 7000 yards; the destroyer's torpedo salvo passes between the American battleships, and heavy cruisers USS Minneapolis and USS New Orleans are detailed to finish Maikaze off. A shell from one of them detonates the destroyer's aft magazine, and she sinks by the stern. Her forward gun is still firing as she goes under. New Jersey's portside secondary battery leisurely finishes off Shonan Maru No. 15 while the heavy cruisers deal with Maikaze.

Iowa engages Katori with 46 rounds 16" HC in eight salvos (indicating she wasn't firing full salvos) and 124 5" rounds. All salvos are reported to straddle the target, and Katori is observed to be listing heavily after the fourth salvo. It is believed Katori took at least sixteen major-caliber shell hits, a surprisingly respectable total for a ship built to merchant standards. Katori's own torpedo retaliation misses Iowa astern. Fire is checked when Katori sinks.

Nowaki, showing more sense, runs for her life. The two American battleships crank their throttles open and pursue at 32.5 knots, in what must be an unpleasant surprise for the the Japanese destroyer. Nowaki is straddled by the first American salvos at 35000 yards, and attempts to hide in the sunglare on the water, causing both US ships to switch over to pure radar fire-control at 38000 yards. The last salvo is fired at range of 39000 yards and is still a straddle at nearly 22 miles, but Nowaki somehow avoids being hit directly, though badly hurt by fragments and fire they started.

A salvo dispersion of only 220m would have never allowed Nowaki to escape alive considering the number of salvos fired. According to Iowa's action report her salvo dispersion was never less than a half-mile firing against the destroyer. New Jersey did better (her guns had been more carefully maintained in alignment) but her dispersion was still reported as never better than 350 yards, well over 300 meters, and sometimes reached the same size as Iowa's.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
That has to be the most ass-backwards thing ever considering we didn't need giant towering pagoda masts to accurately direct our cannon fire at those ranges.

You haven't even heard ArdRaiess ranting on how radar FC sucks yet. The WG devs are either terrified of or hate USN fire control.

Select Boise, press X, let microwaves lay the guns, close firing key, profit??
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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
That has to be the most ass-backwards thing ever considering we didn't need giant towering pagoda masts to accurately direct our cannon fire at those ranges.

You haven't even heard ArdRaiess ranting on how radar FC sucks yet. The WG devs are either terrified of or hate USN fire control.
I'm inclined to think its both, given their native market's contempt if not outright hatred of anything American these days.  I would not want to be their Russian PR rep telling those forums that American naval quality was the best in the world in WW2.
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[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
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[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Melon

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
Honestly, I wouldn't even bother taking ArdRaeiss seriously, it's bad for your brain cells.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 07:25:33 am by Melon »
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
People complained about Mutsuki being a step down from Minekaze

"Minekaze, a too effective, elusive, and dangerous Japanese destroyer, will lose her top torpedoes and three kilometers of range with them.The traversing angles of her torpedo tubes were reduced a little, while the detection distance was increased by almost one kilometer. It's cool to be a ninja, but it's time to draw a line."

WG heard your complaints. :P
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Offline Spoon

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
People complained about Mutsuki being a step down from Minekaze

"Minekaze, a too effective, elusive, and dangerous Japanese destroyer, will lose her top torpedoes and three kilometers of range with them.The traversing angles of her torpedo tubes were reduced a little, while the detection distance was increased by almost one kilometer. It's cool to be a ninja, but it's time to draw a line."

WG heard your complaints. :P
Please tell me they will buff the furutaka in some kind of meaningful way.
What a piece of **** that is compared to the Kuma. I want to move past it so badly but every game played with it feels like suffering.

I'm inclined to think its both, given their native market's contempt if not outright hatred of anything American these days.  I would not want to be their Russian PR rep telling those forums that American naval quality was the best in the world in WW2.
Well, it was in the later part of WWII, when 'murica finally got their heads out of their isolated asses and joined the war, only to realized they didn't actually had much of a proper navy to begin with, and just build a new modern one in a few years time  :p
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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
Keep in mind the only reason we called the Pensacolas heavy cruisers is because the rest of the world called anything with a 203mm cannon bore a heavy cruiser.  We were just fine classing them as eight inch light cruisers due to the lack of armor. :P
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
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[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
Well, it was in the later part of WWII, when 'murica finally got their heads out of their isolated asses and joined the war, only to realized they didn't actually had much of a proper navy to begin with, and just build a new modern one in a few years time  :p

It's not our fault nobody else had a world-class navy to start with and could also build a completely new one twice as powerful as anyone elses'.

Or put another way, if it had been the Royal Navy's Pearl Harbor, they wouldn't have been able to keep fighting the war. The USN not only did, but what was left afterwards was able to go blow-for-blow with what was at the time the most powerful navy in the world.
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Offline crizza

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
The japanese were fools for not destroying the supplies at Pearl...

 

Offline Hades

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
The Japanese were fools for drawing the US into war in the first place. Supplies gone or not, the US would have eventually recuperated and sent Japan to slam-town New Jersey.
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Offline crizza

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
I disagree somewhat...
Pearl Harbor was the only place west of the mainland were ships could be supplied and thanks to the naval yard be repaired.
Destroying these two things would have meant ships would have to return for even minor repairs to the westcoast.
I agree that the industrial potential of the USA was greater than those of any other major power in WWII, but the japanese hoped to achieve their conquests without interference of the pacific fleet.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
It's not our fault nobody else had a world-class navy to start with and could also build a completely new one twice as powerful as anyone elses'.

Or put another way, if it had been the Royal Navy's Pearl Harbor, they wouldn't have been able to keep fighting the war. The USN not only did, but what was left afterwards was able to go blow-for-blow with what was at the time the most powerful navy in the world.
Nonsense.
The losses the USN incured during pearl harbor was like 2 sunk battleships, and 6 battleships that got damaged, repaired and rejoined the fleet after.  And like 3 cruisers sunk cruisers and destroyers.

Now take a look at what the british had just at the start of the war:
Quote
At the start of Second World War in 1939, the Royal Navy was still the largest in the world, consisting of 15 battleships and battlecruisers with five under construction, seven aircraft carriers, 66 cruisers with 23 more under construction, 184 destroyers with 52 under construction, 45 escort and patrol vessels with nine under construction and one on order, and 60 submarines with nine under construction
The kriegsmarine was basically nothing but submarines, something battleships aren't going to be hunting.
If the RN suffered the exact same losses during their fictional pearl harbor attack, as the USN suffered, they would still have so many ships left. It might have affected their naval battles against the Regia Marina for a bit and they might have needed to redraw some ships from the pacific for a while, but it ultimately wouldn't have affected the outcome of the war by a lot.

The Japanese were fools for drawing the US into war in the first place. Supplies gone or not, the US would have eventually recuperated and sent Japan to slam-town New Jersey.
America sort of forced the Japanese hand.
If everything worked out as the Japanese had hoped (destruction of a few carriers at pearl, a decisive fleet battle at midway), they definitely had a chance of 'winning'. Ergo, make a favorable peace treaty with the USA while they held naval superiority over the pacific.
They were fully aware they had not a snowballs chance in hell if they let the US get to buildin'.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
A salvo dispersion of only 220m would have never allowed Nowaki to escape alive considering the number of salvos fired.

Actually, it could happen. (but it was 260-270m, not 220)
There are two things to consider: the randomness of the dispersion and the accuracy of gunfire (leading)
Unlikely, but well...stranger things have happened.


Quote
I'm inclined to think its both, given their native market's contempt if not outright hatred of anything American these days.  I would not want to be their Russian PR rep telling those forums that American naval quality was the best in the world in WW2.

I'm dying to see the glorious russina navy, known for it's many "heroic" exploits.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
The losses the USN incured during pearl harbor was like 2 sunk battleships, and 6 battleships that got damaged, repaired and rejoined the fleet after.  And like 3 cruisers sunk cruisers and destroyers.

Couple of points you're missing: the actual total was more like 6 sunk battleships and 2 damaged. The fact they could be raised and repaired by the US doesn't necessarily follow for the British, which is rather the point. In fact it's doubtful they they could have even repaired the badly damaged ships. The industrial capacity isn't there in combination with their wartime efforts to address the U-boat threat and maintain the rest of their fleet at combat readiness.

The UK had actually built beyond the ability of its industry to maintain a fleet in wartime conditions. Witness the fate of the majority of the RN's heavy ships, as they start getting laid up circa 1943 due to their increasingly poor condition. If they take major damage in combat, no solution is going to be forthcoming.

If the RN suffered the exact same losses during their fictional pearl harbor attack, as the USN suffered, they would still have so many ships left. It might have affected their naval battles against the Regia Marina for a bit and they might have needed to redraw some ships from the pacific for a while, but it ultimately wouldn't have affected the outcome of the war by a lot.

It would have broken them. You're ignoring quality for numbers. The RN barely had enough ships available to meet all its missions. It had to maintain a defensive posture in the Indian Ocean, have enough force to counter the Italians, and maintain enough ships at Scapa Flow to counter German raiding. While on the surface their panic about Bismarck seems strange given how badly the RN outnumbered her, examined more closely it becomes clear that the RN realistically only had seven battleships which had any business being in a fight with a modern fast battleship such as Bismarck or the Littorios: Hood, Nelson, Rodney, and the four KGVs. With the loss of Hood and Prince of Wales preordained, that turns it down to five. With this they have to guard against Tirpitz, what they think are four Littorio-class ships, and the possibility of the Vichy French stirring from their ports with at least one fast battleship of their own, plus the two Dunkerques which will be difficult to effectively counter without a fast battleship.

Older battleships are still of use, but it must be expected they will have to both counter the older battleships of the enemy and be present in at least two-to-one numbers to counter fast battleships; not so much because they are at a disadvantage in a one-to-one fight, but because they must be in the right place at the right time and so operationally more of them need to be deployed to intercept the enemy rather than allow them to slip by. After doing the math, it becomes obvious the British do not have quite enough ships. And this is all to merely hold the enemy at bay; the chances of winning any individual engagement are up in the air and a few runs of bad luck could make things even less appealing.

The mob of old battleships that held the Italians at bay is now greatly reduced, and the Italians have reason to be more bold knowing that defeating this set of enemies will actually matter. The threat of British naval power which along with American diplomacy held the Vichy French to lukewarm alliance at best with Germany is gone, with unpredictable results. The British cannot turn to their carrier arm for answers either; their carriers do not have the modern aircraft, the doctrine, or just the numbers (despite their apparently high number of ships, each individual British ship carries fewer planes than American or Japanese ones do) to fight major fleet battles.

If everything worked out as the Japanese had hoped (destruction of a few carriers at pearl, a decisive fleet battle at midway), they definitely had a chance of 'winning'. Ergo, make a favorable peace treaty with the USA while they held naval superiority over the pacific.
They were fully aware they had not a snowballs chance in hell if they let the US get to buildin'.

The Vinson Bill was passed when Japan refused to join the Second London Naval conference in 1936, the Two-Ocean Navy Act in 1939. The ships that would destroy Japan were, very literally, already building by the time the bombs fell on Pearl Harbor.

Combine that with the fundamental logistic inability of the Japanese to seize Hawaii or mount effective attacks against the West Coast, much less the East Coast where most of the major warship construction yards are, and there is no win condition.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 06:47:37 pm by NGTM-1R »
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
The Japanese were fools for drawing the US into war in the first place. Supplies gone or not, the US would have eventually recuperated and sent Japan to slam-town New Jersey.
America sort of forced the Japanese hand.
If everything worked out as the Japanese had hoped (destruction of a few carriers at pearl, a decisive fleet battle at midway), they definitely had a chance of 'winning'. Ergo, make a favorable peace treaty with the USA while they held naval superiority over the pacific.
They were fully aware they had not a snowballs chance in hell if they let the US get to buildin'.

The Pearl Operation galvanized the US population for extended industrial warfare, something that Japan had zero capacity of stopping, Kantai Kessen or no.  Defeat in detail at Pearl, IJN naval victory at Midway (funny enough their ground force component was likely incapable of actually taking the island) was not going to force the US to the negotiation table, the US was committed to forcing unconditional surrender.  Furthermore, despite whatever delusions Combined Fleet may have harbored, the IJN completely lacked the logistics and doctrine to have followed through in taking Hawaii.  They may have delayed US offensive operations for 18 months, but they would not have had an answer for the forces the USN was able to field by November 1943 at the Gilberts, even with Kido Butai fully intact.
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Offline Spoon

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
I uh, guess I'll go do some more reading up next time I'll take part in these discussions.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
For superb analysis of the IJN at Midway read Shattered Sword, it is mad awesome. :yes:

NGTM-1R do you have any suggestions on the ETO?  I'd be interested in looking at something similar for the Atlantic.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
Reacquired the Cleveland class, specifically coated in CL-57 USS Montpelier's colours.



Seems like the shell flight time and arc has gotten pretty ungainly from what I remember from CBT.  Still at mid ranges and below those 6"/47 Mark 16 still wrecks faces.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
For superb analysis of the IJN at Midway read Shattered Sword, it is mad awesome. :yes:

NGTM-1R do you have any suggestions on the ETO?  I'd be interested in looking at something similar for the Atlantic.

Honestly, no, I don't know of any comparable work for the Atlantic. If you're interested in the U-boat war there's always Micheal Gannon's duology on Operation Drumbeat and Black May, but most of my feel for British naval operations came from having to learn it as part of the year I spent doing the Today In History project for the Warships forums. Broad detail resolved by getting a lot of lesser detail.
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Offline Gray

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Re: World of Warships - Closed Beta
Ohhh Kuma, my most precious Boat among all of my Fleet and Terror of all DDs and BBs on all the Oceans we sailed, why don't they allow me to upgrade you further?  :(


Awesome boat is awesome.