[MatthTheGeek]

Then again, rather have it sooner than later, right ?

[Luis Dias]

if you read MatthTheGeek's posts there is very little to actually support the comp and lots of fault finding which I must admit I find hard to reason that they are any problem at all

I take his doubts as a sign he's very interested in this competition. Personally I'm psyched to see the results of it!

[The Dagger]

I like this idea. I'm in.

[Fury]

(how can this be conceived as a "motivational push" for FSU if it deliberately excludes upgrades to original assets?!?!?).

Because I missed that little tidbit of information when I was reading the rules.

[Raven2001]

I might do something for this.

However, there's 2 things I think should be made clearer:
1. Perceptions of what make a ship Freespacey may vary. Heck, even when it comes to each species! A sort of "guideline" stating the judges vision on these points would be very useful and enlightening.
2. What about ship scales? I mean, if someone does a destroyer, it's assumed that he\she has put more time into the work, to achieve the same level of quality of someone who did a fighter. Might be worth considering this, and how it would be dealt with.

My 2 cents

EDIT: oh and give Oddgrim his 50 bucks already, no point pretending

[Darklord42]

Should have made it voltion ships only, FSU would be done in no time. (jk)

What a wonderful way to reinvigorate the community, can't wait to see the results!

[Oddgrim]

EDIT: oh and give Oddgrim his 50 bucks already, no point pretending

Nooooes, I want to see what others might do!

[fightermedic]

EDIT: oh and give Oddgrim his 50 bucks already, no point pretending

Nooooes, I want to see what others might do!

ah come on, you know you've won already

[Raven2001]

I think we could spice things up a bit... add some more rules. For instance, how about a rule like "Oddgrim can't participate with a Vasudan model."

[headdie]

EDIT: oh and give Oddgrim his 50 bucks already, no point pretending

Nooooes, I want to see what others might do!

ah come on, you know you've won already

i dont know, esarai is not to be ignored

[fightermedic]

well, the dagger has made some very good vasudan models too, but still, if everything goes the way you'd think, i can't see oddgrim not winning this

[Oddgrim]

I would also want to see what eresai and thedagger have up their sleeves.  But really who knows what will be produced in this? I'm giddy with anticipation to see what others might will make.

[The Dagger]

Well, there are many good modelers in this comunity so it should be pretty good if we get enough people interested. So, let's wait and see what the community can make. I seriously think this could be a great celebration of the quality work we as a community can achieve.
And let's not start giving prices even before the first submissions are made, as we want people to participate instead of just saying "Meh, I won't win anyway so what's the point". I'll be participating just for the fun of it but other people may feel differently.
(Oh... and I'd like to see newman and bobbtman also getting into this, that would be epic )

[Black Wolf]

Ships must be functional in FSO with the latest mediaVPs installed, and include at least a LoD0 model (pof), a diffuse map (if not utilizing existing tile maps) and a table file. Points will be deducted for bugs, and added for completeness (e.g. debris, LoDs, normal maps etc.) Ships which cannot be made to work in FSO will be disqualified.

This should probably refer to a particular FSO version.

This is a fair concern, but I don't want to prevent people using features that might be developed in the next three months. So long as people mention in their release thread what FSO version is required, that should be fine.

Awesome! I'd enter for judge, if only I was certain I had the time...

• no individual may win more than one major prize (i.e. the "Best Overall Model" and "Best Terran, Vasudan, Shivan model").

So do I understand it correctly that the Best Terran, Vasudan and Shivan Model will not be eligible for Best Overall Model? In that case, calling the prize 'best overall' seems a bit odd. Or is it the other way around, and does Best Overall go between the three category winners?

No, the way it'll work is pretty straightforward. Each ship will be judged by each judge and given a score. Those scores will be combined for a total score. The ship with the highest total score wins first prize. The individual species prizes will then go to the next highest scoring ship in each category (excluding any other entries by the overall winner). Technically, this means that a lower scoring shivan ship can win the fifty dollar prize even if there are three or four higher scoring Terran ships - the idea being to spread entries a bit more evenly across the three species, and encourage multiple entries in multiple species, even though individuals can only win once.

I might do something for this.

However, there's 2 things I think should be made clearer:
1. Perceptions of what make a ship Freespacey may vary. Heck, even when it comes to each species! A sort of "guideline" stating the judges vision on these points would be very useful and enlightening.
2. What about ship scales? I mean, if someone does a destroyer, it's assumed that he\she has put more time into the work, to achieve the same level of quality of someone who did a fighter. Might be worth considering this, and how it would be dealt with.

I'm hoping that individual ideas about "Freespaceness" will be balanced out by multiple judges with multiple views on the subject, plus I don't think we want to stifle anyone's creativity too much. It'll be up to the authors to make the best ship they can, in a style they think has the best chance of winning. We want to see what you create, rather than setting too strict a standard and getting x number of cookie cutter ships.

As for the destroyer/fighter split, well, this may be addressed in some way by the scoring system (which will be posted soon, once judges are finalized and it's been discussed), with model complexity or something being considered. Plus,uniqueness, originality and utility to FREDders and campaign designers will probably be factors - fighters mightn't score as highly here.  But most likely it will again come down to individual preference - while fighters might seem easier, not everyone's best ship is a fighter. I doubt we'll see too many juggernauts, since, yeah, the amount of work involved is much higher. But I honestly think that some cruiser/corvette scale stuff is very likely.

[Black Wolf]

Double post, but just for the record - two judges (including myself) are finalized, one is pending. I'd like no fewer than 4 judges, so if you're interested, and wont be entering the contest, feel free to PM me and get involved.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

I'd like to know why this is called the HLP Modding Contest when your leaving a big chunk of the HLP community out of it.  It's pretty much just for FS2 and modeling so why not name it something that reflects that.  Also I see several bad things coming out of this.  First and foremost is the already mentioned drama.  Then you have the cash aspect that has the potential to pull modelers off of their projects and onto something new to try to win.  This will slow down releases, cause arguments within projects when assets don't get finished.  Last and probably most important is the whole thing is timed really badly.  With Interplay just getting the rest of the rights to FS2 and cash involved for making assets to fit into their IP (and yes Terran, Vasudan, and Shivan derivatives no matter how original fall under their IP as does the .pof format itself) this could have unintended fallout from Interplay that I don't think anyone wants. 

[jg18]

I'd like to know why this is called the HLP Modding Contest when your leaving a big chunk of the HLP community out of it.  It's pretty much just for FS2 and modeling so why not name it something that reflects that.

I have to admit that the current title also rubs me the wrong way.

Also I see several bad things coming out of this.  First and foremost is the already mentioned drama.

Everything stirs up drama around here, although modding contests with cash prizes are likely especially prone to it.

Then you have the cash aspect that has the potential to pull modelers off of their projects and onto something new to try to win.  This will slow down releases, cause arguments within projects when assets don't get finished.

I am a bit surprised about cash rewards, given discussions like this one on why modding teams shouldn't accept donations, even if they weren't prohibited from doing so.

Last and probably most important is the whole thing is timed really badly.  With Interplay just getting the rest of the rights to FS2 and cash involved for making assets to fit into their IP (and yes Terran, Vasudan, and Shivan derivatives no matter how original fall under their IP as does the .pof format itself) this could have unintended fallout from Interplay that I don't think anyone wants.

Maybe a bit improbable but not far-fetched, especially since money is involved.


Instead of cash prizes, how about special badges that the winners get to keep for 6 months or a year or whatever? That'd avoid a lot of these issues.

[Black Wolf]

I'd like to know why this is called the HLP Modding Contest when your leaving a big chunk of the HLP community out of it.  It's pretty much just for FS2 and modeling so why not name it something that reflects that.

The name was discussed on the first page of the thread. I admit it could have been named better, but I'm not keen to change it now that it's live, particularly not in case we want to have a 2014 Modding contest that might potentially cover a different aspect of modding.

This is one that people are just going to have to deal with for now I'm afraid.

I do, however, take umbrage with the idea that "a big chunk of the HLP community" are being left out. That is 100% not true. Literally the only requirement for entry is an un-banned HLP login to post the release thread. That's it. Beyond that it comes down to the skill of the entrant in producing a quality mod. Not one single person is excluded - Derek Smart could enter if he wanted to. I'm guessing that your argument that people are being "left out" comes down to either "It's a ship creation contest and not everyone knows how to make ships" or "It's a Freespace themed competition, and not everyone is here for Freespace". 

Both of these statements are true, and both are completely irrelevant. This contest is about making ships for the FS universe. If people don't want to do that, then they don't have to enter. If they want to enter, then they have to fulfil the criteria of the contest. It's in much the same vein as the fact that you can't enter a dog into a cat show. If you want to enter the competition, then your entry has to meet the entry requirements. I really don't see why this is a problem for people.

Also I see several bad things coming out of this.  First and foremost is the already mentioned drama.  Then you have the cash aspect that has the potential to pull modelers off of their projects and onto something new to try to win.  This will slow down releases, cause arguments within projects when assets don't get finished.

The risk of drama is a terrible reason to not do something, and I refuse to let the risk of people getting upset hamstring and paralyse the community from doing anything new. Look at the positive responses in here and tell me that this is something that people don't want. Like anything, there are people who are in favour and those who are afgainst, but the response has been primarily positive, and for that I'm happy. As for modders getting pulled off their projects, yes, this is theoretically a concern. Contestants will, I suppose, have to make those decision for themselves. But I would argue that, if successful, the contest will produce a large number of high quality models that will be useful to many projects, and that that will offset any potential losses regarding what people might have done instead of working on contest entries.

Last and probably most important is the whole thing is timed really badly.  With Interplay just getting the rest of the rights to FS2 and cash involved for making assets to fit into their IP (and yes Terran, Vasudan, and Shivan derivatives no matter how original fall under their IP as does the .pof format itself) this could have unintended fallout from Interplay that I don't think anyone wants. 

Could, but almost certainly wont. Interplay aren't some corporate hawk, fluttering away in the sky waiting for an opportunity to attack us. I'm confident that if they had any issue with the community, they would have expressed it before now. This is not the first time we've spent money on FS IP stuff, after all - consider the Vasudan model that was produced, or the FS themed cafepress store that was around for awhile.

JG18: A contest like this one is a different beast to donating to mod teams or paying for mods, which is what that thread was about. This is a competition. The person with the best models wins the prize - it's totally different to a commercial transaction, even if it doesn't initially seem that way. Contests are covered under different laws and regulations, if you want to get really legal and official about it, which we don't need to do.

[MatthTheGeek]

I'm guessing that your argument that people are being "left out" comes down to either "It's a ship creation contest and not everyone knows how to make ships" or "It's a Freespace themed competition, and not everyone is here for Freespace". 

Both of these statements are true, and both are completely irrelevant. This contest is about making ships for the FS universe. If people don't want to do that, then they don't have to enter. If they want to enter, then they have to fulfil the criteria of the contest. It's in much the same vein as the fact that you can't enter a dog into a cat show.

But cat shows are not called "pet show", they're called "cat show". The point was that "modding" is too broad a term for what this contest actually covers.

[Colonol Dekker]

All I'm saying is Black Wolf has pretty comprehensibly laid the rules out. The hard question is, "what do I make?"