[Aesaar]

Why would Amazon sign an agreement with CIG if Amazon knows that CIG cannot use their services?

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/12/24/star-citizen-has-changed-game-engines

I've had a response from CIG director of communications, David Swofford, to say that the relationship between CIG and Amazon is that of them being a regular licensee of Amazon's technology.

Amazon hasn't signed some sort of endorsement of CIG or SC.  This isn't in any way proof that Amazon believes SC is feasible.

Finally, this should be the final nail in the coffin of any "AWS can't be used for MMOs!" argument. Frontier Games uses AWS for their games, E:D among them. Any sin which you're accusing CIG of has already been committed by FD. Seems like it's working out pretty well for them. It's certainly working out well enough that Amazon has a video advertising the partnership on their site.

You're aware that Elite doesn't and has no intention of implementing battles with hundreds of people and dozens of player-controlled ships, yes?  The scale of what SC is intended to do is so insanely beyond what Elite does it's ludicrous.  SC fanboys just love to proclaim it as "proof" that SC is better than ED.


I do love how CR kept saying that CIG had rewritten something like half of CryEngine, and yet they managed to seamlessly integrate their changes into a completely different branch of the engine.  That they both came from the same 2-3 year old version of CryEngine shouldn't mean that much if CIG's changes were as extensive as they try to make people believe.

[666maslo666]

You're aware that Elite doesn't and has no intention of implementing battles with hundreds of people and dozens of player-controlled ships, yes?  The scale of what SC is intended to do is so insanely beyond what Elite does it's ludicrous.  SC fanboys just love to proclaim it as "proof" that SC is better than ED.

The argument was that Amazon web services is a wrong choice for Star Citizen because it is supposedly only good for session based games instead of persistent MMOs. That Elite is using it soundly disproves that particular argument.

If you want to argue that there wont be battles with hundreds of people, then that is a different thing and I may even agree. I think the limit will be somewhere around 128 players in one dynamic instance. But I am not ruling out bigger numbers either.

I do love how CR kept saying that CIG had rewritten something like half of CryEngine, and yet they managed to seamlessly integrate their changes into a completely different branch of the engine.

Whether this can be managed depends entirely on what exact changes we are talking about.

It is pretty obvious that they merely took some things and upgrades from Lumberyard and integrated them into their engine. Not the other way around.

[karajorma]

Well it depends on where the changes CIG made are and how much has been ported from the other fork into the Amazon one. If Amazon's changes are to fairly modular parts of the code, it would be fairly easy to have no conflicts.


That said, I'm still convinced we're being gaslighted here. Either the networking stuff the new engine brings isn't much of a change or Star Engine didn't have any useable networking code.

[Col. Fishguts]

Even WTFosaurus is confused by this mess.

[Mikes]

Well it depends on where the changes CIG made are and how much has been ported from the other fork into the Amazon one. If Amazon's changes are to fairly modular parts of the code, it would be fairly easy to have no conflicts.


That said, I'm still convinced we're being gaslighted here. Either the networking stuff the new engine brings isn't much of a change or Star Engine didn't have any useable networking code.

Considering how the engine struggled with even small amounts of players the later is quite likely.
Worst case: Both are true. As far as wanting to make a full fledged MMO with realtime spaceship combat with it anyways.

Furthermore MMO gameplay has always followed the technology traditionally. CIG appears to try it the other way around. So there's no telling if even half of what they promise can be delivered with current technological limits. That is, whether it can be achieved in any way that could be considered "playable" and or "enjoyable", while holding on to what they promised.

[Spoon]

If you want to argue that there wont be battles with hundreds of people, then that is a different thing and I may even agree. I think the limit will be somewhere around 128 players in one dynamic instance. But I am not ruling out bigger numbers either.

Surely you aren't implying that Croberts is making wild unobtainable promises and that the whole game as pitched will never see the light of day?! I'm super worried that the promised massive battles of hundreds of players and hundred of ships isn't going to be technically feasable...

Whether this can be managed depends entirely on what exact changes we are talking about.

It is pretty obvious that they merely took some things and upgrades from Lumberyard and integrated them into their engine. Not the other way around.

Tell us all the obvious things

I mean, citizens all seem to know exactly what is going on.

Meanwhile look at this generic boring colorless amazing fps that kills CoD dead.

Can't wait to play it, looks super good after 5 years only 1 year of development.

[Spoon]

I forgot to mention
They are now selling missiles

For 70 dollars

This is fine.

[Mikes]

I forgot to mention
They are now selling missiles

For 70 dollars

This is fine.

On a brighter note, UEC also gets refunded when you get a refund :-)

[StarSlayer]

Wait, is that 70 dollars per fish?

Not that it makes it any better if it isn't 

[Lorric]

I forgot to mention
They are now selling missiles

For 70 dollars

This is fine.

As soon as I saw this post, I was immediately, strongly reminded of this:

The research is kind of being carried out for real now in a similar way at CIG. Maybe they can charge you real money to have your avatar order an in-game pizza for the price of a real pizza.

[666maslo666]

I forgot to mention
They are now selling missiles

For 70 dollars

This is fine.

It is fine. You want to buy the game you can pay 40 dollars or so and thats it. Anything more and you are paying primarily to support the development, with any items being just an added bonus.

Now I am not the kind of backer who would pay hundreds of dollars for an unfinished game (I would if I was filthy rich), but I certainly think selling such packages is fine because $140 million pledged means I get more bang for my own buck, too.

[666maslo666]

Surely you aren't implying that Croberts is making wild unobtainable promises and that the whole game as pitched will never see the light of day?! I'm super worried that the promised massive battles of hundreds of players and hundred of ships isn't going to be technically feasable...

Surely you can post a source where Croberts said there will be hundreds of ships in one instance? Cause I didnt catch that information..

Hundreds of players in one area may be doable assuming most of them are hidden as crew inside bigger ships, which acts as a single entity.. I am not sure tho.

[Unknown Target]

Where is the game?

5 years of development gets us:

MMO: Alpha can't run with more than 24 players on a server in a single system. Game as pitched was for thousands of players in 100 systems. No gameplay loops at all other than a couple "kill stuff/press buttons for money" things.

Dogfighting "Module": Literally just wave-based gameplay. Non-final FM after all this time. Game as pitched was for physics-based ship simulation. Nowhere to be found. (This is what I backed for)

FPS "Module": Just 2 maps and a bunch of very plain weapons. Literally nothing original or unique. Game as pitched was an experience to rival CoD.

Squadron 42: Lots of expensive mocap. Seriously, who starts mocapping the entire story before the levels are even built? Nothing heard from this in a couple years now. Where is it? Game as pitched was a new Wing Commander. Nowhere to be found.

There's no point in arguing with people that are still backing at this point, it's just crazy to me that people are keeping this going. It blows my girlfriend's mind when I tell her about it: "You mean they pay hundreds of dollars for fake spaceships? You don't even get a model [to hold]!".

Pure lulz.

EDIT: Maslo, you can't "hide" players inside a ship. If they're connected to the server, they're connected to the server. Seriously can you even explain that idea?

[666maslo666]

EDIT: Maslo, you can't "hide" players inside a ship. If they're connected to the server, they're connected to the server. Seriously can you even explain that idea?

Isnt it obvious? You can treat the ship as one big object from the point of view of those outside of it. Then you dont need to send everyone on the server data about every player in the ship every fraction of a second.

[Lepanto]

Haven't really followed the development, but one thing that strikes me is how bland this game looks. It's every sci-fi cliche from the last couple decades baked together. Art style, story, technology aesthetics, everything. Brown-looking environments, ISO standard spaceships.

I realize that, as a game trying to reach a mass audience, it can't be TOO artsy. But still, does Chris Roberts have any ideas in his head beyond "whiteboy power fantasy sci-fi war story"?

[Mongoose]

SC is the biggest instance of Stockholm Syndrome in human history.

[Unknown Target]

EDIT: Maslo, you can't "hide" players inside a ship. If they're connected to the server, they're connected to the server. Seriously can you even explain that idea?

Isnt it obvious? You can treat the ship as one big object from the point of view of those outside of it. Then you dont need to send everyone on the server data about every player in the ship every fraction of a second.

But what about when they open the doors of said spaceship?

I'm no server engineer....but if they have players walking around inside the ship, then the server still has to keep track of  those players, because it has to be able to tell when those players do something (say, man a turret), that can affect their surrounding environment.

What about the ship rolling? The server will have to update all of those player's positions, even if it doesn't broadcast it to other players. They still create load on the server.

I agree Lepanto, and it's criticism that's been said several times: everything about Star Citizen is pretty derivative, right down to the giant sandworms.

[Lorric]

but I certainly think selling such packages is fine because $140 million pledged means I get more bang for my own buck, too.

I haven't looked at it that way before. I still don't know how to feel about CIG's profiteering. But yeah, if I was excited about the game I might feel that way too. If nothing else it continues to show the World there's a deep market for spacey games.

"whiteboy power fantasy sci-fi war story"?

Uh... huh?!

I don't know where you are getting power fantasy from to begin with, but how on Earth do you get a "white boy" power fantasy? What makes a "white boy" power fantasy different from a black guy power fantasy or a latina power fantasy?

[Aesaar]

I certainly think selling such packages is fine because $140 million pledged means I get more bang for my own buck, too.

Constantly repeating this doesn't make it true.

[Unknown Target]

but I certainly think selling such packages is fine because $140 million pledged means I get more bang for my own buck, too.

I haven't looked at it that way before. I still don't know how to feel about CIG's profiteering. But yeah, if I was excited about the game I might feel that way too. If nothing else it continues to show the World there's a deep market for spacey games.

"whiteboy power fantasy sci-fi war story"?

Uh... huh?!

I don't know where you are getting power fantasy from to begin with, but how on Earth do you get a "white boy" power fantasy? What makes a "white boy" power fantasy different from a black guy power fantasy or a latina power fantasy?

I dunno about all that, but the story (what little we know of it) does make it seem very "white male saving the galaxy through force" and the cast is pretty monotone:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/squadron42